We are very very predictable and our set moves are shocking when you compare it to other teams. It's the same move all the time and we have no dummy runners or options.

Because lance and lomax ain't natural halfbacks it's to slow, lance maybe quick on his feet but he's very slow in the head when it comes to rugby. We seem to go across the pitch to much.

It was always going to be a problem this year from the min super Royce said he's playing lance at 6.

Very true. Overall Lance isnt a bad player, we are just using him wrong, if you told him we are doing play x y and z with his chiming in from fullback he would be great, if you tell him to set up and organize play x y and z thats when he struggles. When the ball gets to him he may aswell lie on the floor. he thinks about it too much when he is in possesion rather than making a decesion right away and that why i think the ball either ends up on the floor or passes it too a player who already is being lined up.

IMO stick him at FB drift in and out of the play dont give him to much responsibility plus as he shown chasing myler down he has abit of much needed pace.

Possibly because he is not fit enough to play prop down the middle.
Perhaps the coaching staff see him more as a strike weapon into the corners in the same mode Ali Lauitiiti and David Solomona (esp. when they started to lose their stamina).

Well, wello was poor against warry but so was just about eveyone else and he scored a very good (consolation) try.

Against, Hudds he was, if not the man of the match, very close to being so. He IMO, made some excellent match turning tackles in the second half of that game when Hudds broke through on three occasions with only him to beat.

I'd give him another year and its unfair to place all our problems on him.
He needs to pack in the pathetic man trying to fly impersonations though.

How about him getting humiliated and smashed to pieces against Wigan, Wire and Leeds in the last league game and in the playoffs ruining his confidence and maybe threatening his future development as a player? The worst thing you could do with Gaskell right now is bring him into the team cold for big games that we are likely to lose convincingly after most of the season sat on the sidelines. Sit him in the stands, protect him from the oncoming farago, let Hohaia take the flak instead and start again fresh next season where we'l have a full season to build him up, have a good look at him and get him ready for the big games to come if he's ultimately up to it. That's the way to do it.

I'd be more than happy to have front row of Perry and Puletua with Clough and LMS coming from the bench...Laffranchi can move to 13 and have Wilkin, Soliola, Flanagan and Flannery playing in the second-row:

Wellens
Makinson
Shenton
Jones
Meli
Lomax
Hohaia
Perry
Roby
Puletua
Flannery
Wilkin
Laffranchi

LMS
Clough
Flanagan
Soliola

He really does need to pack in the Icarus impressions. Really winding me up with that now.

His performance against Warrington is his norm now, that's how he plays. He can still come up with the odd good tackle, the odd high ball take and he'll get on the end of breaks through the middle. But he's got no life in him at all. He's playing like a 32 year old whose body is shot and seems to be really struggling. His body language needs to be sorted out if he's staying in the side, sulking your way through a match you are playing terribly in is no way for a captain to behave. It's unbelievable that we've given him another playing contract.

LOL - 'wellens offers us absolutely nothing'
how about ... half of our tries?

The squad is stagnant and is in need of refreshing. Sadly the cost of the stadium has put a stop to that.

We shouldn't have give TP a new contract if he can't last 20/30 min stint.

Alot of talk about playing TP in the front row - this may be going against the grain, do I dare to say it - he looks lethargic and it seems can't last longer than 15/20 mins playing out wide. His lack of ability in playing long minutes really seems to affect the stability of the side. Compare his performance to that of Trent Waterhouse, an equally big second rower who caused all manner of problems out wide for us Monday and played pretty much a full game, as did Westwood on the other side.

He's a massive unit but for me, doesn't run his weight and could be even more devastating if he weren't going from a standing start every time he gets the ball.

He's always been better for us up the middle, I think.
He's no spring chicken and, while you may think there's less work going forward at 2nd row than prop, there'll be a lot more work to move around the pitch and be in the right position to come from deep, even if its for a dummy run. Maybe that's what takes away from his game when he's plyed 2nd row.
As I said elsewhere, I'd rather see laffranchi used in the 2nd row and TP at prop.

TP is better up the middle, he seems distracted to me when he is out wide. We are just not using him right at all, one of his best attributes his offloading, yet we send him up on his own hardly anyone goes with him so if he does get the chance to get it away no-one is there.

On a possitive note it was a great ball from TP to Meli in the first half on the occasion he actually drew the defence in before giving it, just a shame Meli nearly took Lomax's head off with the pass. On a side note what was peoples view on that play, at the time i was thinking go yourself, Ratchford was on Lomax's heels so if he collected it would he of scored? I Know it was irrelevant to the final result but surley if he was playing with confidence he would of gone on his own?

Puletua is not the player he was, whether that's due to an injury, conditioning or old age. In part, it was his poor performance that cost in the grand final, but its interesting that some players can't be criticised.

Talk of front rowers is fine, but lets not forget the others; Perry has been here for ages now and has only been average when at his best, which isn't often. LMS is all action but again, when we need some good solid graft he can be found wanting. Players like Laffranchi, Flanagan, Wilkin, Clough play pretty much the same each week....it may be argued that they aren't class, but at least they usually give what they are capable of.

No sense talking about the halves when we were beaten for possession, territory, muscle for large parts of the game.

Well there is. A team losing the forward battle can still remain competitive if they have a kicking game. There were times Warrington were held with little territory in the game on Monday but their kick got them out of trouble. In the same situation we'd pump it down the fullbacks throat and they would start the set on half way.

The halves is a quick fix for this season, bring Gaskell back. It's a show of remarkable stuborness by Rush to not have done that by now. But in general Brown has an enormous task on his hands as the squad is not in a good state, we're lacking in every department and seriously lacking in all the key positions (1,6,7,8,10,9 is fine).

Agree in part that kicks would have helped but Warrington were only in that situation a few times and us much more, leading to fatigue which didn't help, but yes, we could have kicked better. And by that token, why weren't Warrington competitive, notwitstanding the quality of their forwards, for the first ten years of this century....they've always had Briers?

Didn't pay particular attention but didn't Wilkin kick most often? Not meant as an attack on him, just seeking a factual answer. The point is that the kickers (other then when a prop gets caught on the sixth!) must be decided by coaching before the game.

Its not just the yards. Wire had their tails up and the forwards were moving up very fast in defence to pin us back. Seeing a rubbish kick at the end of the set only rewards them mentally, whereas putting in the extra effort only to see the clearing kick whizz right down the other end and make you run back 60 metres will work the other way to dishearten you.

I also reckon there's only Roby that's managed a 40-20 for us this year, something which gaskell managed a few times last season.

Rubbish it was Michael Shenton's injury what cost us the Grand Final.

Naaah it was clearly Meli...always is his fault when we lose a grand final, right?

My theory was that it was Wello going off that nearly won us the GF and Shenton going off that stopped us. Had he not gone off, we'd have won. Had that happened Royston would probably still be here. Small margins and all that.

Totally agree with all that. Losing Shenton was horrific because as we all know Leeds ran riot down the left our right where Shenton was stationed.

Disease, world poverty and the Olympics being in London are all Meli's fault. He is the root cause of all evil in the world.

Scott Moore missing two crucial tackles contributed a lot to us losing the grand final.

You know,one big positive is that Nathan Brown has very little to do these days so will (hopefully) be studying each game and identify where we are to improve. He'll have seen Monday's game and already be planning on how to resolve the shortcomings.

We should have changed things around ages ago, preferably after our third defeat to Wigan. It's too late to make changes now. For example, Gaskell has not had enough game time, even in the u20s, to be at his best in the team at this stage in the season. However, even if he was the next best thing to Sean Long, he wouldn't get a game because the present regime have no intention of playing him unless Hohaia is injured.