I think this is a good article with Sinfield explaining the long term nature of the club rebuild. I think we as fans do have to be quite patient and not just for this season... https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9646430

I think this is a good article with Sinfield explaining the long term nature of the club rebuild. I think we as fans do have to be quite patient and not just for this season... https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9646430

I whole heartedly agree but the fact remains he & GH failed with recruitment/retention this time round 2 marquee signings are great when the rest of the squad are up to it ours arent.
Also giving his mates Jjb & Ablett new deals were shocking calls it takes up squad & cap space when we're desperate for more quality.
Us fans will ALWAYS be here & i doubt anyone is demanding to win every game or every trophy but the dross that replicates last years disaster is & should be unacceptable with players getting hoofed for poor efforts nit just 1 or 2 either .
If that means we struggle then so be it some if them arent woeth the shirt.

Don't mind being patient about most of the rebuild but a lack of commitment and organisation in defence is a different thing entirely. Furner and Sir Kev would do well to stamp that out, b*ll0cks to patience in that regard.

Quote ="christopher"I think this is a good article with Sinfield explaining the long term nature of the club rebuild. I think we as fans do have to be quite patient and not just for this season... https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9646430'" I posted this on another thread after reading this Y.E.P article Quote ="The Biffs Back"Everyone knows what changes need to be made at the club in order for us to be successful again and I fully agree with both Sir Kev and Dave Furner with regards to this moving forward long term https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9577196 But can anyone tell me how Salford went to Catalan and won 46-0 with this squad? 1 Niall Evalds 2 Derrel Olpherts 3 Kris Welham 4 Jake Bibby 5 Ken Sio 6 Robert Lui 7 Jackson Hastings 8 Daniel Murray 9 Joey Lussick 10 Gil Dudson 11 Josh Jones 12 Jansin Turgut 13 Mark Flanagan Subs 14 George Griffin 15 Greg Burke 16 Ben Nakubuwai 17 Adam Lawton I'm sure that Ian Watson would also love to improve his squad by shopping at the top table but they seem to be be able to win games with players that wouldn't necessarily get into most other SL sides,So we can't hide behind this excuse anymore How many of that side would we want? Their spine of Evalds,Lui,Hastings and Lussick work very well together and Ian Watson is also a very under rated coach (despite being a moaning f#cker) IMO it's time for our established current first team players to stand up and be counted and to improve our performances and more importantly our results,and if they can't deliver then IMO lets get committed players in from our academy system that will improve our ineptness and weak areas'" I was alluding to the fact that even though we are a club in transition that we should easily have the squad ability wise at the club to be able to finish around mid table and deliver results like Salford No hiding places for any of our squad members IMO

Quote ="christopher"I think this is a good article with Sinfield explaining the long term nature of the club rebuild. I think we as fans do have to be quite patient and not just for this season... https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9646430'" I posted this on another thread after reading this Y.E.P article Quote ="The Biffs Back"Everyone knows what changes need to be made at the club in order for us to be successful again and I fully agree with both Sir Kev and Dave Furner with regards to this moving forward long term https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9577196 But can anyone tell me how Salford went to Catalan and won 46-0 with this squad? 1 Niall Evalds 2 Derrel Olpherts 3 Kris Welham 4 Jake Bibby 5 Ken Sio 6 Robert Lui 7 Jackson Hastings 8 Daniel Murray 9 Joey Lussick 10 Gil Dudson 11 Josh Jones 12 Jansin Turgut 13 Mark Flanagan Subs 14 George Griffin 15 Greg Burke 16 Ben Nakubuwai 17 Adam Lawton I'm sure that Ian Watson would also love to improve his squad by shopping at the top table but they seem to be be able to win games with players that wouldn't necessarily get into most other SL sides,So we can't hide behind this excuse anymore How many of that side would we want? Their spine of Evalds,Lui,Hastings and Lussick work very well together and Ian Watson is also a very under rated coach (despite being a moaning f#cker) IMO it's time for our established current first team players to stand up and be counted and to improve our performances and more importantly our results,and if they can't deliver then IMO lets get committed players in from our academy system that will improve our ineptness and weak areas'" I was alluding to the fact that even though we are a club in transition that we should easily have the squad ability wise at the club to be able to finish around mid table and deliver results like Salford No hiding places for any of our squad members IMO

But how do you know players won’t get hoofed after this year, Sinfield is saying this won’t be an easy quick fix, that’s the point, we have let quite a few players go already and the ooint Sinfield is making is that it’s pointless recruiting if those players aren’t right for the club hence the need to be patient.

As for the current defending issue, I am sure that its worrying for them but we’ve had two poor performances after two great performances I think we will be inconsistent all year but I really don’t think our squad is ultimately the squad that Furner and Sinfield are building towards.

I find it quite sad that after only 6 matches Sinny feels he has to come out and reiterate the patience is needed message. I'm pleased he has if its felt necessary but a sad indictment on the 'i want it now' view from some fans.

On another note and in terms of rebuilding I will be looking for small signs of positive growth on Friday. There is a worrying trend where we collapse in the second 20 minute period. We have lost 4 out of our 5 defeats in that period. It's no coincidence that that is generally the point props are subbed. If we can stay switched on and muscle up during that period I have no doubt we will win on Friday.

Well, one thing is that Furner will naturally lose some old guard next year, and doesn’t really have attachments to any others - he’s in a great position to give a fairly impartial and professional view, and I’d expect some axing. I’m sure the players are all well aware too.

I’m growing to like Furner’s pressers more now, he does talk a lot of sense and he’s very honest. I miss McDermott being y with the reporters though...

The point is there are many players still here that SHOULD have got hoofed already & that was on Sinfields watch.
The fact he also re-signed 2 old guard shows his impaired judgement along with giving Ferres the captaincy.
He/GH & the Club knew full well what was needed & they haven't delivered simple as that.
Yes it will take time yes fans should & will back them but that doesnt mean they are or should be bullet proof.
This isn't an knee jerk 6 games into a rebuild ott reaction this is a response to the same dross same selections & no depth in quality of recruitment stretching back to last year.

Thing is with recruitment is that it needs to be done far in advance to get decent results. Yes there’s always the opportunity to score an unsettled player mid season but the best deals are done in advance. We for some reason seem to really struggle with this and end up scrabbling around for bargain bin project players who more often than not never make the grade.

It isn’t Sinfield or Furners squad no, I agree and we’re obviously trying to replicate the emergence of the next “golden generation” from within the academy which takes time. We’ve lost the ethos and mentality that made us so successful and we are now desperately trying to get it back, again this takes time.

I would rather the club did their homework on players and make sure they are willing to buy in to the ethos and history of the club much like Kylie and Delaney did, this again takes time to do.

Unfortunately, time doesn’t wait and despite two corking marquee signings we are still struggling to erase the horrors of 2016 & 2018 mentaly. It’s hard going from everyone patting you on the back to everyone criticising you and some of the players are really struggling to live up to the standards needed and required.

The transition has been bungled, there’s no other word for it. We’ve taken our eye off all fronts and lost our edge. We have players in our team who just can’t live up to the pressure of wearing the shirt, we’ve got players in the team who have lost the appetite and fire for success probably due to the amount of it we’ve had for 15 years. It’s not an easy fix, but it is being looked at I’m sure, KS & DF can’t afford not to.

I’ll admit after watching that sublime 30 mins against saints I, in a refreshed state boasted “we’re back!” Which obviously in hindsight, I was wrong, though we have shown in spurts we are getting our ruthless streak back. We were so good against Salford and Saints that I think we maybe got carried away with just how good we are, when there’s obviously heaps of work still to be done.

I have no problem with a rebuild and time. I don't really think Sinfield needed to come out with it, it should have been clear for all it would take time, from the mess McDermott left.

However, where I do have a problem is the way they are going about it. We are still persisting with players who will never make a difference to our long term fortunes in a million years. Why do this? Why not lose with a bit of planning at least, knowing that you are working with players with a future to make that difference?

I also can not accept the defensive effort thus far. That is inexcusable and not something to hide behind long term rebuild. Effort and desire, should be must have requirements at any time.

We are persisting with players who are not good enough and the worst thing is we are signing more players who are not good enough . I have said on other threads i do not expect us to win things every year and certainly not at the moment , but for goodness sake we should not as a club under any circumstances be looking at finishing in the bottom 3 and from my prediction of finishing 10th i have now revised that to 11th . That prediction will change to relegation if we lose Friday . Who does anybody see us beating at the moment apart from London at home and the magic game ?

It’s fair to level some criticism at McD, but he got more out of his squad then Sinfield, Lowes and Furner have IMO. How much culpability remains with him for years of poor signings, rather than GH, who knows. I expect he’ll do very well with Toronto.

I agree re defence - I can handle losing much better if at least we make the opposition earn it. I do think some of the reason for this is again losing the plot in our academy for a number of years previously - honestly Stevie Ward is the most recent product still with us that can tackle. Maybe Oledzski too, he’s pretty solid given his age.

To not have produced technically complete players for the first team in all that time is a huge part of why we are where we are. Rob Burrow had more defensive tiger than most recent products put together.

There clearly has been some issue around talent identification and recruitment in the face of stiffer competition, but with all the coaches and facilities, and years of time, I just can’t believe how many lads have been coming out and grabbing at shoulders etc, getting caught out of position...

In my view, technique can be learned but defence is an attitude, and we’ve not got that right at all for whatever reasons. Maybe it’s too easy for talented lads to shine among a shrinking player pool at youth levels, maybe people get too wowed by flashy tries and fast/big lads - who often get found out at open age.

A couple of good performances would make a huge difference to the side and make things look much rosier quickly.

However a rugby league side IMO is only as good as it’s weakest links, and we have just too many and an unbalanced, disjointed and pressurised side.

This IMO is ridiculous (I'm not saying it's a not a possibility). Look at Huddersfield last year at this stage and Catalans and Warrington on the flip side look at us at this time last year, and Hull - you surely get my point?

We have played terribly for 40 minutes in the last two games, and the two games before that we played really well, at the moment our defence looks shot in the middle and on our goal line but history will show you teams can pick up a string of results which will change the look of the table - Wigan look just as bad as us at the moment are they staring at relegation?

Furner's difficulty is in screwing a good defensive effort out of the group of players that have shown signs of giving us a good attacking edge. If he can do that, in answer to your question, I can see us beating most sides. If he cannot, he will at some point revert to a selection capable of defending but that is poor in attack. I'd much prefer the former but either way I don't think we'll be in the bottom 2.

If you do not think we will be in the bottom two , who else apart from London will finish below us ?

Well who's there now for a start.

Hudds, Wakey, Catalans. That's worse case. I'd add a few more if I knew furner could galvanise the defence of his best attacking 17. All opinion though. If I thought we were incapable of playing any better than the last 2 games I'd be thinking the same as you. But we've seen that's not the case.

The whole situation has been a marketing disaster for the club from start to finish. Build a new stadium, spend millions of £'s, we owe the banks big time, all stadium prices have been hiked up by a minimum of 10% in some areas, by more than 25% in other areas. Yet the team in the last 18 months has been awful. We can blame McDermott for so long as he was at the helm long enough, but we cant blame him for the recent signings or people leaving. Sinfield has to take some responsibility. The team has gone backward from last season. Last season the rot did not set in until after the World championship this year it set in from the first game, and having watched them play well in two of the games the other 4 games have been terrible. To say we have to be patient, and give them time, then they should have thought long and hard about this before they hiked up the prices. We have a great stadium but a poor team. Think about it, even with the golden generation how many league leaders shields did we win, McDermott said it was never how you started it was how you finished the season that mattered, and we had the best coach in the league as to how to finish off a season, the years when we won it twice from 5th, we played terrible in games so even though we won all those grand finals we never played well throughout every season, unfortunately it was never going to last. The last good season was when we won the treble, after than it was one good year either side of two terrible seasons. To cap it all and it sums it up perfectly you can only polish a turd so much.
Last year we let two players go to Hull KR who were better than the players we have signed this year, JD we signed from HKR he may be able to tackle but he hasn't improved the team going forward, The two Marque signing are good quality signings but where are the follow up quality signings, we gave contract extensions to two old boys, JJB and Ablett, both Sinfield's mates, yet both haven't played to date, both are still injured as per last year, this was down to Sinfield and GH, is Loloear a half back or full back, we are now hearing he is a full back. WHY ?? when we have Jack Walker one of the quality players, the patience only lasts for so long and while we have been watching rubbish for a long time its time that someone took responsibility and ownership. I wish people on here stopped talking about being patient, how long would your employer be patient with you if you continued to underperform. Lets get this right Sinfield is not bullet proof, being a good leader on the pitch, which he was and is a Leeds Legend, it does not guarantee you success as a leader off the field. He is on steep learning curve and failure to deliver will see him lose his job, he is after all not a shareholder. So far if you judge him on what he has done to date the score would be low. We are all entitled to our views, everyone has their opinion lets respect everyone's views and lets review at the end of the next 6 games.

Huddersfield, Salford, Hull KR, Catalan, Wakefield and even Wigan could all finish below us IMO

We're on round 6 of 29 game season!!

Which is fine as it's your opinion but I really think you are being unrealistic in the changes and how quickly they can be made when A. players are under contract and B. we have a salary cap to adhere to.

Someone has taken responsibility and ownership, last year GH stated that things needed to change, he sacked McDermott, he brought in Sinfield who from the very beginning said this was not a quick fix, they then went about restructuring the whole backroom staff including the head coach, they have got rid of quite a few playing staff and recruited three overseas signings. We have a lot of players off contract next season, so will see another big change in players.

I honestly think your expectations of the clear out and rebuild are way too high in terms of how quick it will happen, this year I suspect we will be consistently inconsistent, however I do think we have the quality to get to mid table and build from there, we as RL fans are too quick to look at recent results (as in the last 2 games or so) and judge how the season will pan out based on those games, history will show you teams can and do start very poorly but end up in the higher end of the table, and also the same in the opposite direction, our season last year for example!

You may be right although last time I looked, the player stats had Garbutt on marginally over 7m per carry, a considerable decrease on what he was making over the first two or three games. And while I'm not one to go off stats alone (we've seen the silliness that can lead to) there might be a story emerging there none the less.

WE have had a miserable start to the season and 5 losses out of 6 was not what i expected when the fixture list came out. I will be patient and wait to see. Obviously the rebuild will take time and may even take 2-3 seasons before the club get themselves back to where they want to be. Dwelling on what has happened and pointing the finger in blame is futile and a waste of effort. We are where we are but i would like to see progress. We have seen glimmers of it at Saints and Salford but not much other evidence of it. Friday against London will be a good indicator on what has been worked on this week and hopefully some of the holes filled in. After London we have Catalan and Castleford, it doesn't get any easier does it!

What i have come on to say though is that i'm sick and tired of reading all the bashing of JJB & Ablett before they have even pulled a shirt on. Their experience is not to be underestimated, give them a chance to still prove their worth before rubbishing them. If they don't perform go ahead and criticise but they haven't caught a ball in anger yet! If they don't add value to the squand then i will admit it myself and say that it's a season too far but at least wait to see

Ablett's also 4 years younger than JJB at 33 so I'm not sure they can be put in the same category as past it.

Yep good post mate.