So which games that we have lost this season would we have won if we'd had someone different in the right centre or a different forward on the bench?

None Andy.

Don't you know Eastwood and a.n.other outside back would have left Leeds undefeated and that, and only that, would be a vindication of the clubs squad building.

Being in the position we are and challenged for an unprecedented 3rd consecutive title simply isn't good enough........for some.

Personally I think the poster was right to say we would have been in a stronger position. There is games we would have won.

However, that said, I do think you have been vindicated in what you have said all season, about the current squad been good enough to do the job required.

Perhaps a more fairer indication would have been had we been missing as many players as Saints are now. Would that have made a difference?

Leaving the squad understrength has so far this season seen it fail to retain the World Club Championship and get knocked out of the prestigious Challenge Cup at the first hurdle despite benefitting from a home tie.

If this is such a golden period for the club why is it the case that the Challenge Cup has not resided in the Leeds trophy cabinet since 1999?

The current league placing is acceptable while the performances have been good in short bursts.

Still too early to judge the season overall though.

I think for a period, we did, last year and still won the championship. Of course, our results would have suffered a little, as have Saints and as would any other side in the league.

Could the squad have been stronger? Yes. Did the club attempt to strengthen? Yes.

Those efforts having failed to come to fruition was the squad good enough nonetheless, even relying on the youngsters we have? Yes.

As there the need for the knee jerk reactions we saw on here? No.

Good enough to compete at a reasonable level? Yes

Good enough to defend the WCC? No
Good enough to win a home tie in the Challenge Cup in 2009? Apparently not.
Good enough to win the League Leaders shield? Perhaps.
Good enough to retain the SL Title? Let's hope so.

Your past position has been that the squad have been poorly coached at times, while I agree with that he has also been denied enough 1st team options.

Somewhere between the two could be the truth.

No offence but that seems a little picky. We have won the bigger prize 3 times since then. A Challenge Cup win would be nice, don't get me wrong, and the exit to Saints was disappointing this year, but I don't think it alters the view that the last 5 or 6 years have been among the most successful in the club's history.

A club of Leeds current strength should be expecting to pick up a CC more often than once in 11 years. Name another club that has had the relative strength for a 6+ year period and failed to land a CC.

Thank you. That is all I am saying. Im not saying we'd have been unbeaten i'm just saying I feel we would have been in an even stronger position than we are now which may i add is in no way a poor one. I just feel we could have done better and really dominate at the top this season. Apologies if i want too much. So stop going off on on G1 !!

Agreed. I'd sooner us be champs though than challenge cup winners if i had to chose one - but we should have won more. Hull fc final springs to mind although - the senior injury was a key one in that game

And the decision not to play McDermott.

Yep agreed.

Agree, Hull had a big powerful pack at the time so Tony Smith decided to push JJB upto prop during the game.

The week before we played Bradford though IIRC, and Barrie had by far his worst performance in a Leeds shirt - he was terrible, this may have had some bearing on TS's decision.

True, but if I remember correctly we went into the final with only 2 props, Barrie would have been a massive help in my opinion against the big Hull pack.
That final is about the one and only time I thought Smith got it badly wrong. Not with choosing Senior, but in not choosing Barrie.

Has Westwood had a kid or summat?

Which and why?

Saints in Cup. Bradford away. Salford at home.

Why? because I said so.

Seems to be a bit of acase of viewing the glass as half empty though. Name another club that has won 3 of the last 5 Championships?

Not sure I agree with Saints in the cup, I would say that saints away was closer, as was the bulls game.

I'd say that one or two of the games lost by one score could be candidates as you could argue that the extra class would have made a difference.

We don't know though. Had we signed Eastwood and a centre, they may have got snapped in the Festive Challenge and we never saw them again

Can I just say. I have no issues with the centre position, except when Smith was out. Hence why I said those games with no Smith.

The forwards is where I agreed with the poster saying it would have made a difference.

Thats fair enough. As they say, forwards decide who wins the game, back decide by how much

St Helens won the GF 3 times in 4 years from 1999 to 2002 and also played in 2 CCF winning one and losing one. During the SL era outside this period they won a further 5 CCF, losing none.

St Helens won the GF 3 times in 5 years from 2001 to 2005 and also played in 2 CCF winning one and losing one. During the SL era outside this period they appeared in a further 3 CCF, winning one.

Leeds won the GF 3 times in 5 years from 2004 to 2008 and also played in 1 CCF which they lost. During the SL era outside this period they won a further 3 CCF, winning one.

As I see it this currently puts us marginally behind Bradford and way behind St Helens although a GF win this year will edge us ahead of Bradford. St Helens is more difficult to decide given the CC record.

That's better, I think. Nice work BTW.

He used the term "a club of our strength". I thought we were under strength?



"Should" our club have won more CC's? I'd like them to have but you can never say any club "should" win because whatever we write on here and whatever the message board experts and statisticians say games are won and lost on different criteria than the perceived strength of a player, a list of players or a club. That is the beauty of sport. That is the greatness of sport. The 1998 Wigan team "should" have won the CC shouldn't they? Those 17 Sheffield players and John kear had other ideas.

Why the use of the last 11 years, btw? Leeds have a pretty decent record for CC wins overall. Its' the Championship that has often eluded this great club but not in these pas 5 seasons.

That is why we "should" sit back and be appreciative of this great squad and this great management team.

The reason I used 11 years was to include the last win. If I'd wanted to be negative I would have said once in the last 30 years.

Whilst you point our that Wigan lost to Sheffield in 1998 as a particular game they still won quite a few CC during their period of dominance. My point was that during a period where Leeds have been one of the dominant 2/3 teams their return has been the poorest of the lot and only on par with the likes of Hull and, as you say, Sheffield.

I have no expectation to win any competition any season as that is what I have been used to. I have a hope that we will win trophies and that hope has been fulfilled over the last few years and I hope that we again win the GF this season. That said history will show that during a period of dominance our GF return was very good whereas our CC return was poor.

And BTW I do sit back and appreciate this squad as the most successful in my supporting days. I also feel the management have done a great job and despite criticisms on here GH must take a lot of the applause for the achievements of the club.