[Quote='The Printer' More likely he realised how foolish he looked challenging people to leave the board permanently because they didn't share his dislike of McDermott.'"

I do like to watch the opposition and give credit where its due. Cas where immense last week.

Appreciation of the other team makes watching a game that much more enjoyable....IMHO of course.

If I have you mistaken then I apologies. By the way you have me mistaken as I made no mention that you should be ashamed.



My point has been simple and consistent. I have never said BM is perfect or never makes a mistake, however I am sympathetic to the coaches position when their critics sally forth with OTT (not shouting by the way) opinions made without real knowledge of the circumstances.

When players hit poor form or make silly mistakes on the field, as they all do from time to time, is not the fault of the coach. To assume that these things are the coaches fault or that there is no structure or game plans or player rule or other such nonsense show a complete lack of understanding of the coaches role. Mac has coached the team to 2 championships a WCC and 2 Cup finals and has shown earlier in this season that we can produce a side that plays attractive rugby with attacking back play and resolute defence.

We have just been through a long spell without our two first choice hookers. In addition there have been other injuries and our leader and captain has been a lot off-colour. To pretend that these are not really important factors in our drop in performance is unreasonable. How many of those calling for Mac to be sacked would be happy if the same criteria were applied in their workplace and to their performance.

We're in a slump and McDermott has to turn it around, if we finish the season with silverware, most importantly the big one then he will have done a great job. If the slump continues and we finish with nothing they I think he will be out.

Surely the skill of a good manager is to get the best out of charges and ensure certain performance levels are maintained regardless of team content.

I see players that struggle to pass to the right, can't catch a high ball, can't pass from dummy half, can't read plays - if this is not what McDermott is employed to ensure basic technique is correct then what is his job?

I wouldn't have thought teaching basic technique was the head coach's job. That should be done with juniors by junior coaches. The fact that players lacking the most basic skills in their position ever get to first grade is bizarre, but sadly too common.

Slightly OT, but the most cringe-making example I remember recently was Scott Moore for the Cowboys last year. Probably the worst passer from dummy half I've seen in the NRL. How he ever managed to get as far as he has without being able to consistently pass from acting half is a complete mystery.

If the basic techniques are preventing the team from being able to carry out his plans then surely something needs to be done. Tony Smith spent a lot of his early time at working on the basics - things worked out OK for him.

I don't think it's down to Mintball entirely but you are right about the Sin Bin. Someone should have organised the funeral a long time ago while there is still something left to put in the coffin.

All your above points are granted and have credibility at certain points during this season. But I'm looking at Leeds over a wider period. We are so reliant upon blood and effort, busting a gut for the side. It is almost as if it doesn't come natural to Leeds as we're set up to go to war on every occasion without much focus on attacking shape and the natural flow of our rugby. That mirrors the ex Marine which is McDermott. Then when the injuries/fatigue arrives and our physicality drops as a result, the young kids are just not tough enough to go to war and don't yet have the skills for the off the cuff stuff we play. Where as if we were well set-up in attack with structures in place we still should be going through those plays, even if they do result in a drop ball and a missed timed run through lack of experience. Instead we are just so flat its like watching your amateur side. On Friday there was no reason what so ever for Joel Moon to repeatedly cut back on the inside and run across the line of defence without a single player putting his hand up to crash onto the ball or run as a decoy. Its all off the cuff stuff. There was no reason what so ever to not put another play on whilst he was teasing the defence, instead we stood there clueless and made to look pretty silly. Hey, that can be down to the players and no one putting their hand up to give Moon a runner is not good enough. If that is the case I expect McDermott to come down hard on them this week and see a marked improvement. But I've been waiting for that for years...Lets see if it happens on Friday.

In addition, for what its worth I don't think McDermott shouldn't be Leeds' 1st team coach. Just for him to share the work load and not be Mr Leeds. We need that extra coach that has the responsibility from McDermott to shape Leeds better up in attack. Step forward Dunneman, we can dream.

There are other culprits Codead, FA, Dally but the fact remains that between them they have killed the board. Now they have no one to belittle through demonstrating their superior knowledge to (sic)!!

if you supported hull fc like me you would have something to moan about.....top of the league,cup semi, 2 grand finals in his time and still you moan we would settle for a win at present

Quote Brian McDermott workshop offensive principles Leeds rugby academy 4th Aug 7pm all coaches welcome book LRCABooking@leedsrugby.com @TheRFL'" Maybe a couple of posters might like to attend. These are regular events. Very popular and very well attended I understand by the local coaching fraternity. Thats people who actually get involved and put something back into the sport they love, rather than those that just have Terrace Test Caps. www.therhinos.co.uk/news/23485.php

Quote Brian McDermott workshop offensive principles Leeds rugby academy 4th Aug 7pm all coaches welcome book LRCABooking@leedsrugby.com @TheRFL'" Maybe a couple of posters might like to attend. These are regular events. Very popular and very well attended I understand by the local coaching fraternity. Thats people who actually get involved and put something back into the sport they love, rather than those that just have Terrace Test Caps. www.therhinos.co.uk/news/23485.php

Ricky Hatton said in an interview that he never shadow boxed for 12 rounds because he felt it made fighters too robotic. He liked to train for a few rounds in different scenarios so he could react to situations. Under McDermott, to me, we seem like a team with a plan for 80 minutes, rather than one with a few plans to mix it up.

The players are trained to the point, that when it's not working, there's no alternative. I'm not looking for miracles, but at this level when most defences are strong, teams need something extra in attack to break them down. Dummy runners, second phase, offloads - things many of us see lacking. This surely comes down to the coach and how he prepares them. So many times, we offload and the next tackle is within 5m of the offload. Other teams offload and look to exploit the space.

I try to think of a run of a games where we've been on fire, but I struggle.

Quote ="DoubleAone"Maybe a couple of posters might like to attend. These are regular events. Very popular and very well attended I understand by the local coaching fraternity. Thats people who actually get involved and put something back into the sport they love, rather than those that just have Terrace Test Caps. www.therhinos.co.uk/news/23485.php'" They are popular and well attended, though not as well attended as I would like. I think there are still plenty more coaches out there who can learn from these events! But then those coaches who need these sessions the most are the ones least likely to attend!

Quote ="DoubleAone"Maybe a couple of posters might like to attend. These are regular events. Very popular and very well attended I understand by the local coaching fraternity. Thats people who actually get involved and put something back into the sport they love, rather than those that just have Terrace Test Caps. www.therhinos.co.uk/news/23485.php'" They are popular and well attended, though not as well attended as I would like. I think there are still plenty more coaches out there who can learn from these events! But then those coaches who need these sessions the most are the ones least likely to attend!

True

With all the experiences in our team do you not think the players should be able to think 'you know what this isnt working, lets try something slightly different'?

Players shouldn't need to be told to offload or support a player in attack, it should be something natural that happens

I cant imagine McDermott doesnt have them running dummy runners and different plays in training, IMO its the players not taking things from the training ground to the pitch

But Brian McD IS going to the training, so where does this leave the point you are making?

You'd think so. But surely the coach would have addressed it and things would have changed. Let's be honest, it's not just this year out attack looks stagnant. So either they are his tactics and the players won't divert from them or the players aren't listening to a word he says and ignoring the last weeks training. I know which option I'd go for.

Don't you think experienced players with so many titles would be good at taking their coaches plan onto the pitch and executing it?

The thing is that it's the sort of tough pay that has won us titles. Grand finals are nearly always won by a small margin on a tight game.

Last season we ran out of bodies but we should never underestimate the affect of being tougher than the opposition

That's kinda the reason I don't mind us not hammering opposition by massive scorelines like Wire and Wigan often do and have done in the recent past.

I do think the problem that has stopped the last 3 LLS winners even reaching the GF has been lack of tough and close games during the year. People say that England's problem at international level is lack of close and intense games.....well the last 3 LLS winners have pretty much strolled through the year with minimal tests.

So when we get pushed by the likes of HKR or lose to Wakey, whilst frustrating or disappointing at the time it probably does us more good in the long run than going through the motions with a 40-50 point stroll from the 1st minute of the game.

Look at Warrington's run in 2011 and the complete lack of close games from April 15th (Round 10) onwards

W 64-6
W 60-0
L 10-24
W 58-14
W 80-0
W 62-0
W 112-0
W 42-6
W 56-16
L 16-18
W 46-16
W 35-28
W 48-18
W 28-16
W 54-24
L 24-44 to Wigan in CC QF
W 66-12
W 25-12
W 39-12
W 34-12
W 47-0
L 24-26 to a Leeds in playoffs

13 of those 18 wins were by 30 points or more, only one was less than a 12 point win.

Wigan's 2012 season is perhaps even more noticeable. They won 25 games in all competitions and only ONE was by less than 12 points and that was against HKR away.

Both lost to us in the playoffs and both had strolls in the first week of the playoffs, Wire beat Hudds 47-0 in 2011 & Wigan beat Catalans 46-6 in 2012. Hardly the tough preparation you need to claim a GF.

I don't mind us getting pushed, I'm just concerned at our ability to win these tight games. It's something we don't seem to have right now. In the past I'm pretty certain we'd have won at least 2 or 3 of the close games we've drawn or lost.
Most notably Wakey away & Cas at home.

If Leeds had kept 13 players on the field I believe they would have won the Cas match by continuing to grind it out. Leeds were in control until Sinfield's shocking brain fart.

As for Wakey...uggh!

On this we can agree

As has been mentioned for Cas it was a Sinfield brainfart and against Wakey we were missing a ton of experience on the pitch.

I don't think the Cas result had anything to do with the Sinfield brainfart of the sending off. Unless you lot are not on about the sending off?

Yes, it was down to a Sinfield brainfart, but that was not going for the drop earlier, and using his head to win the game. With or without the sending off, the frustration had already set in, and Cas like they did last night, were always going to give it a last hurrahhhh.

As for soft. I was speaking with Brett Ferres a couple of weeks back and he was giving it the same old same old, that always goes through the game, that Leeds have no underbelly, they do not like it when you are in their face, and too soft. I gave him the same line, of we have enough GF wins to show different, and his response was we are talking about two different teams mate.