I disagree with leaving him on the wing. It's got to be worth a proper look at him at centre on his preferred side of the field. That means a decent run, with the ability to put him back on the wing if it doesn't work out.

If he doesn't get a run this season, when the heck will he? Next season from the start with no other experienced option? I'd say this is exactly the time to be trying him out there, whilst we have Senior as an (increasingly dodgy) option. If it doesn't look like he'll ever be anything but a winger, then we have time to look at options for next year.

He turned 20 last month.

This is his 1st full season playing 5 in '08, 13 in '09, 6 last year and every game so far this year.

A lot of the "knock" on Watkins is his supposed defensive frailties. In that regard, is he really any worse than the current version of Senior, prone to doing his own fair share of ball-watching and lacking in mobility?

Exactly.

Those that are saying with the loss of BJB, Hardaker and Smith what option do we have but to retain Senior in the threequarters ? What message does that convey to the likes of Wilson and Chisholm ? Senior at the moment is not even a better option than a mannequin dummy.

I repeat the mantra if you're good enough you're old enough.....bring on the kids this season. We need to start blooming the future team NOW for a good start to the 2012 season.

Chisholm is not the answer, he's got awful hands!

Nothing a bit of fairly liquid can not help with.

He said you had awful ears by the way.

I would certainly give Watkins a run at left centre. On this season form he will be much better than Senior on attack and on defensive cannot be worse. He has extra pace and has to be better the Senior under the high ball.

I still think Senior like Delaney can do a better job for us in the pack than the likes of Pitts and Kirke (once he reverts to 2nd row) because as forwards they will have more pace and a better chance of busting tackles.

Still dubious on playing Senior in the pack. Delaney yes but senior i am unsure

Interesting you should say that about busting tackles, because one other thing besides Seniors defence that has peed me off this year is his effort in the collission. Even the smallest of players he appears to completely lack busting the tackle.

As a comparison tackle busts for Senior in 2010 were 50, in 2009 60, in 2008 59. I know he has only had 9 outings so far this year, but he has made 9 tackle busts. He is going to have to go some to get anywhere near those previous years figures. Infact even if Leeds really do turn the tide It would be a worthwhile bet to say Senior will be lucky to break 30 this season.

On misssed tackles aswell as a comparison. In 2010 Senior missed 29 tackles, in 2009 he missed 22 tackles, and in 2008 he missed 14 tackles. Again after only 9 outings this year he has missed 11 tackles already. Going back to the same little bet, you wouldn't be far off if you guessed he would end up with 35 misses by end of season.

People try and not put a lot on stats, fair enough, but the above clearly demonstrates a rapidly declining Keith Senior.

Interestingly Kallum Watkins already has 28 tackle busts this year.

He played against Hull last year and pout in 30 tackles with several tackle busts.

I certainly wouldnt mind if we were short in the back row him filling in ,but for the season I just dont see the point. Moving him from the centre to give a young player the experience, while stifling young players in the SR.

Also that was last years stats, he stats at centre last year were a whole lot impressive than this.

Senior has always relied on pace and strength to make tackle busts rather than traditional silky centre skills. He now lacks the pace to make these busts as a back, but as a forward will still have an edge with pace IMO.

On defence he has always had problems with positional judgement and his tackling style has never been classical round the legs backs style but rather upper body forward style. This year players are running round him in the open spaces out wide.

So I say his abilities are more suited to the pack where he showed at the end of last season at Hull with an outstanding performance in the 2nd row with around 30 tackles.

We have too many slow ponderous 2nd row forwards so I think it is worth a go as it may revive his career as he has for Delaney and McKenna before him who both lacked pace as backs.

I have this idea that Ryan Hall would slot in nicely at Left Centre, not yet though.

Last season I was mocked for suggesting Senior and Delaney should be Leeds' first choice second row ! Oh how times change.

Leave the threequarter positions to Hardaker, Smith, BJB ( 3 great FBs also .... Is there any room for Webb after this season ? ), Wilson, Watkins, Hall and Chisholm.

WRT to missed tackles stats given the appalling state of our defence generally could that be more down to the lack of defensive structure under the current coaching regime than a decline in tackling ability for any given player?

Agree we look all at Sea in defence and this could be "fudging" the missed tackle stats

It could also be due to having to play some young players and make weekly changes due to injuries.

Against Hull KR the rot set in when, Bailey, Buderus and Ablett were replace by Pitts, Hauraki and McShane and we had no marker tacklers. We had replaced our top tacklers with our worst tacklers.

Against Wigan the defensive structure was fine for most of the game. It was an individual lack of tackling ability that led to several scores each of which cost us the game.

Missed tackles are down to the individual players errors and not the coaching regime

Quote ="Juan Cornetto"He played against Hull last year and pout in 30 tackles with several tackle busts.'" viewtopic.php?f=17&t=469793 I don't reproduce what Opta report as 'tackle busts' on the weekly thread but do so for my own records. The above game was in Round =#0000BF27. Senior's Opta 'tackle bust' totals for the weekly rounds were: 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 0, 0, 1, 4, 1, 0, 2, 1, 0, 1, 3, 4, 1, 6, 3, rested, 1, 5, 2 and =#0000BF1

Quote ="Juan Cornetto"He played against Hull last year and pout in 30 tackles with several tackle busts.'" viewtopic.php?f=17&t=469793 I don't reproduce what Opta report as 'tackle busts' on the weekly thread but do so for my own records. The above game was in Round =#0000BF27. Senior's Opta 'tackle bust' totals for the weekly rounds were: 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 0, 0, 1, 4, 1, 0, 2, 1, 0, 1, 3, 4, 1, 6, 3, rested, 1, 5, 2 and =#0000BF1

Classic Bailey

I just don't see the point in continuing to play Senior at left centre unless Watkins is dreadful there. If Watkins is seen as our first choice 4 for next season, it would actually be insane to NOT give him a run of games there this year.

Senior has well and trully gone and the sooner we have someone who can even pass and catch the ball the better, some of the things he does you would get a rollicking for on an amateur pitch, i know he's never been the smartest player in rugby terms but just don't understand his thinking sometimes, he also looks like he's scared of going into the collision these days maybe because he's carrying an injury or he understands that his body cannot take the week in week out strains of SL

If that were true then he himself ought to pull the pin on his career, never mind the coach.

Absolutely, but Senior has always been in it for himself rather than the team. I draw comparisons to Daryl Powell and how he actually told the coach to drop him so that Harris could play stand off, knowing it was better for the team.

Seniors in it it to top up his ebay account and nothing else at the moment. We only have to go back to August 2005 to prove ourselves on that one.

Rugby is what he knows and it's where he makes his earnings. Like me and you and him and her, you play to your strengths and make money to cover your lifestyle etc. There's nothing wrong with that, it's human.

Who can blame him? He's not the only one who has done it and won't be the last. The best Senior years have long gone. He hasn't shown any form this season and that is what he will be judged on - his current form. But looking to last year, he had his bad games but he also shined (Wire away solo try). He could still hold his own in 2010, he has yet to prove that in 2011. Senior generally gets better as the season gets older, an Everton if you like. But in this season he has a heck of a swing to shift, he may not quite get there. But don't count out Super Leagues Greatest Ever Centre, especially if he wants another shiny 1 year wages extension.

I'm not knocking him. Everyone of these players are in it for a job not just for fun, and money needs to be earned.

I was responding to Brisbanes point about if it were true then you would think Senior would call it a day himself. Personally I think Senior puts his money before anything, and just would not do it. And therefore I drew comparisons to Daryl Powell, which was quite admirable what he did, even though it was most required.