The numbers you are talking about are tiny relative to the costs we are talking about.

The fact is that the club is going to lose a minimum of 2k fans for those games, and thats if we sell out what will essentially a stadium of the carnegie stand western terrace. It can guarantee itself that loss and hope the fans come back afterwards, or use that time to try and attract new fans.

But the ones like WCC's are GENUINE big games, not normal games dressed up in the fake tinsel of pretending to be big games which is what you're suggesting with regular league games.



Wigan's average attendance was 16k when they first did 'the big one'.....several years on there average has dropped to 13k in 2016 so clearly don't have a long term positive affect. They'll put in a lot of extra money wrt marketing and they'll get the reward for that at their stadium, but we wouldn't the reward because it's being held at another ground that's costing us and not getting stuff like the food, drink, hospitality bonuses. We'd just be throwing money away at a time we need to be smart with it due to the new stands, if we're going to splash cash on making event games out of league games then wait until we're back at a completed Headingley and try entice new fans to the venue we actually want them to come to week in week out, year in year out.

Can I also point out one other possible issue. Who says Leeds United want us there? The relationship between those RL clubs who groundshare at the moment with football clubs isn't the smoothest and I think most of the football teams wouldn't mind having the RL sides out of the stadiums.

Before you say games of RL have been played there previously, yes but they were one off fixtures, not several league games every other week? Man United let the GF get played at Old Trafford, but do you think they'd have a RL team playing half a season there? Doubt it.

Decent possibility Leeds United are playing Premiership football by August, maybe they won't want RL games causing damage to their pitch.

hang on, didnt you tell us the WCC was pointless and should be scrapped. Now it is a genuine big game that simply cannot be replicated at SL level?

Waiting until we are back at headingley would be incredibly dumb. Why play games in a half built ground, to low attendances, then when that ground is built and ready to go, move games to another stadium?

The fact is that playing it at headingley, whilst headingley is being rebuilt, will see us take a hit. it is unavoidable. Thats what makes it the ideal time to go to Elland Road.

Maybe like Old Trafford, The Etihad, St James' Park, The New Den, The Keepmoat, The Ricoh, The Galpharm, the Shay, Spotland, they do.

Did you not bother to read my point about how Old Trafford is for ONE game a season, not a prolonged period every other week.

No, the World Club SERIES should be scrapped. I'm fine with the one off game for the trophy, not the meaningless friendlies the night or two beforehand.



I didn't say move them to another stadium, do them at Headingley when it's completed.

We can move to Elland Road whilst Headingley is being done up providing the cost is acceptable (and they're happy to take us) but the idea to throw even more money at the temporary move with big expensive marketing campaigns that really won't achieve anything is just dumb spending of valuable money at a key time.

A prolonged period? It would be 4 or 5 games.

You see, i remember stating that it was unambitious that the Rhinos didnt take the last WCC to Elland Road and you told us that people didnt really care about the WCC and they shouldnt play it at Elland Road. Now its the only game they could take to elland road.

Oh well, im glad we now agree on the importance of the WCC and taking it to bigger stadiums.

You can't get 37k people in to Headingley.

This.

Really? thought we were losing Headingley for longer than that, really think building two new stands will only see miss 4/5 games?

We played 5 home games between 16th of July and 9th of March between 2016 and 2017 without even trying to minimise them.

No never said people didn't care about the WCC, my complaints were about expanded series. I've said in my previous posts that the WCC is a genuine big game, and even that struggled to sell over 20k as the novelty of appearing in it wore off. So it didn't nor should've stayed at Elland Road, but using it to say we should have more 'event' games at Elland Road is ridiculous when people will easily see through that these are just normal league games.



You can get 20k, how many league games hit that mark? Moving to a bigger stadiums when you don't even fill out your current one won't see more people, it'll just mean you'll be playing in a less full stadium. How much do Hudds & Hull's stadiums hold?

We got 20k in a stadium that held just over 20k, we got 27k in a stadium that held 27k, and 30k+ in a stadium that held 37k. Theres a pattern emerging isnt there.


Except it does. Our attendances at Elland Road for the WCC were 37k, 33k, 33k (when the top tier was opened last minute) and 27k (when the top tier wasnt opened). When the WCC moved to Headingley.

When operating from a larger stadium, more can be spent on marketing, more can be spent on creating an event, and you can earn less per attendee, but still get more overall.

And are those dates the confirmed timeline for absence from Headingley? How many Super 8 games are we having? Which teams are we playing? Wigan's 'big one' is marketed for a long time, we'll have a few weeks because of only finding out the S8's fixtures after R23 to market an 'event' game that could be against Salford or Catalans etc. Who knows we might have a CC final for fans to fork out for around the same time? What happens if we're top two will United let us have Ellamd Road at a weeks notice especially if they have a big home match that weekend?

Lot of important questions you don't consider because you have tunnel vision on "let do events, they'll surely be successful because I want them to be"

Why do you think they stopped opening the top tier, because the demand for tickets weren't there?

What the WCC attendances show is that in 2005 it was new and it was our first ever WCC final, repeated visits to this game have seen the novelty ware off for some and that's why the crowd steadily dropped. You really think we'd have kept getting 30k+ for our last few WCC's if we stayed at Elland Road? The club will have known how slower and less the tickets sold for this game year upon year, if they still thought they could still get 33-37k I'm sure they'd have stayed at ER.

Does it matter? if we play 1,2,3,4,5,6 games at Elland road are we then locked in to playing all of them there?

No more than we did last year.

Does it matter?

Arent we trying to attract fans to watch Leeds play RL? But I agree, the system we have is dumb as all hell.

Is a bus from Headingley to Elland Road an expense we need to plan in?

Why would they need to do this? Again i agree that the system we have is dumb and the uncertainty it introduces is damaging and unnecessary, however it isnt beyond even the RFL to say even now, that if Leeds have 3 home games they will be played on x dates, if they have for they will be played on Y dates. Then Leeds Utd go to the football league or premier league and say hey, the stadiums being used on these dates. Book us away games for next season if you can. Then they do.

I consider them. I dont consider them insurmountable.

No, because Every year the stand needed to have a safety certificate produced so that it was allowed to be used. In 2005 Leeds Utd had already paid for that to happen, in 2008 the tier was closed and wasnt re-opened until 2weeks before the WCC, by 2009 they hadnt even bothered to get the Safety Certificate for it so couldnt open it even if they wanted to. Until the Rhinos stepped in and paid £90k to have the safety checks done and the certificate produced, again not until the last minute.
Every time we have played in a 30k+ seater stadium we have sold more than 30k tickets. Crowds didnt steadily drop. There was a drop from 05 to 08 and 09 when the top tier of the East Stand wasnt opened until the last moment, and a drop again when the top tier wasnt opened at all.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

2 of those points

- yes it clearly does matter who we play, only have look at past attendances to know we don't get the same attendance for some teams.

- why would Leeds United be interested in going to the Premier League/EFL and asking for their fixtures to moved around to help us? Cellino is still half owner at United ATM, he doesn't strike me as the type who gives a damn about helping us out.

When we play in 30k+ stadiums there's usually a trophy on the line or a spot in a Final up for grabs......not just 2 league points against Catalans Dragons bringing zero away fans.

And we still have to play those games. That difference will be there wherever we play.


He doesnt need to give a damn about helping us out because money can be exchanged for goods and services.

Thats why we would use it reach out to new fans

Yes and how much money? You think it's going to come cheap? It's alright for you who isn't responsible for Leeds Rhinos finances.

Again who are these new fans? I imagine a lot of your Headingley crowd probably live closer the Ellamd Road than Headingley.

We went to Elland Road in 2009 + 2010 for the WCC.....we had a lower average attendance those seasons than 2016? So what did the Elland Road effect have?

Leeds struggle to fill the stadium at Huddersfield for a semi final so why anyone would think they could get 30k for a regular league game just because its ER is beyond me