Didn’t get to see the game and not bothered to watch it back after seeing the result.

Very disappointing result, didn’t expect us and Wire to be too far apart this season.

Saw a stat today that said Handley having only played 28mins was our top metre maker… I mean wtf..a big game at home.. deary me.

Stats don't tell the whole story though do they - Handley had one almost length of the field break which will massively skew his numbers.

I don't think the stats to justice to the work of Holroyd and McDonnell sometimes either. They indicate but they're not the gospel without game context being applied too. Over a whole season they make more sense.

What evidence do you have that Smith has brought the club together?
What real quality players has he brought in?
The injuries at Leeds are no different to any other side - no better no worse - what bad luck/unrest has he dealt with?

Smith's job is to improve those players he coaches and provide a coherent game plan that delivers results on the field. Can you hand on heart say he has done this?

1) there were loads of videos and content pre-season with the women's, juniors, PDRL etc sides all coming together. Maybe it was PR but the participants seemed to enjoy it and be bought in to me.
2) Croft, Ackers are proven quality. Miller is a gamble but an upgrade on what we had before. McDonnell is quality. I did say a few!
3) Look at the state of the side with injuries last year and the players who went AWOL/mutinied (our main playmaker, main strike outside back and our ex captain and dummy half??). You don't think that constitutes bad luck and unrest? The wheels fell off the club after the Summer.

Of course Smiths job is to improve the players, and to put together a side which can compete. I've said elsewhere I don't think he's got all the decisions right - but controversially I'd say Donaldson, Goudemand and Bentley were incorrect signings for me. Jury is out on Frawley and Momirovski: I think Miller will come good but he does need some coaching to reduce the brain trumps he can be prone to.

I'm saying it's still too early to make the call on Smith. Lots of you on here have had the knives out for him since Summer last year and are looking for all excuses to stick the boot in frankly, which is fine that's your right. I'd go as far as to say that if Frawley and Momirovski don't work out, it will cost Smith his job. I also have no idea what kind of backing/cheque book GH has given him. For example, losing Walters and losing out on Eseh and Okoro - or some of the better NRL players that have gone to Wire, Cats, Wigan or Saints rather than us... is that a Smith issue or are we just not prepared to pay as a club? I don't know.

I went to the Wire game with my 9 year old son - it was my first experience of the new Southstand, and my son's first time watching Leeds/RL live. Miraculously we enjoyed the experience despite the Leeds performance. Only just got my voice back - not used to shouting that much anymore! The new stand/ground is great (view, comfort, facilities etc), but the Southstand seemed a lot quieter than I remember...

Anyway, the game. My first reaction was that it was clearly our worst performance of the season, and we're slipping further into the inconsistency of last season. It was the first time that our defence looked shot, and that's a major concern IMO. Williams played too fast and quite a few of our players couldn't live with it.

Then I watched the game back on Sky, and I agree with Jim that we need to put the game into some perspective. I don't think we were out of it at all until the last 15 minutes. Quite a few calls from the referee that looked dodgy in the Southstand were probably right or just bad luck (Newman's 'high' shot aside). We can't blame it on losing Holroyd and Handley, but these things didn't help, of course.

The good

Was there any? Frawley's kicking is getting better (two kicks directly resulting in the first try). Momirovski is slowly playing himself into form, and he'll get a few tries this season. The double movement decision was probably right but it was still close - he scores that and we're in a different game. Generally we look better with kick options when we do get close to the opposition line. We actually retrieved the ball from two short kick-offs - not that I like this tactic.

The bad

It may not be panic stations yet, but tactically we need to adjust a lot more. It seemed like the referee was making Leeds stand a very long 10m from Warrington at times, while allowing them a very skinny 10m defending us. We need an experienced forward leading the defensive line - maybe this is something Bentley can add that McDonnell doesn't do. Oledski had a couple of nice charges but he's not the pack leader we need. We need to show more intent in defence and taking the ball forward. My patience with the passive defence is wearing thin now, but I don't think it was the main reason we lost.

The ugly

IMO we lost because of the high number of unforced errors we are making with ball in hand, and soft defensive reads, especially close to the ruck defending our line. In this regard, the coach can help by instilling more practise drills but ultimately the players are to blame here for not executing. Lisone was particularly poor in both departments on Friday. I take the point that if we front load energy into being less passive, then we put Wire under pressure and not ourselves (there were moments in the game we did this, but not enough). We have to stop trying to score off every set - again, having a few more experienced heads out there would help. I'm still not sure Cam Smith has the gravitas/respect of a Sinfield or Peacock to inspire the players around him... He'll get there though.

I notice some posters have pointed out that the Golden Generation rarely made so many mistakes. We have to be wary of nostalgia muddying our memories. Let's not forget the GFs won from 5th and 6th place were on the back of some very mediocre league performances, and even the likes of McGuire (flat track bully), Burrow (not a 9), Sinfield (too slow, not big enough), JJB (penalty machine), Webb (forward passes) etc were routinely criticised on these boards for being past it.

Don't forget 'you can stick a fork in Peacock' from around 2011.

Great post - the only thing I'd quiz is comments re. Bentley v McDonnell. McDonnell was doing a ton of work in D, including on their big men. Bentley is great at filling gaps and getting up and at people, but he doesn't dominate physically like McDonnell can. He also regularly gives penalties and errors away. I know McDonnell dropped the ball once in contact too (Wire were stripping at the ball quite a bit with some success).

Phenomenal tackle to deny Handley another worldy try I thought, and Williams was great. They are a decent side Wire on that evidence.

Think it’s pretty much all been said about Friday, but too to the woe and doubt I’ll throw a couple of thoughts in

Cam smith was pedestrian and does not look like a captain to me. He has has developed a lazy habit of staying in the opposition line for 3 tackles after they kick to us, he needs to set an example

We must lose a player to HIA every 3/4 games, we did again. given that picking McCormack and Edgell as 18th man is very strange. If a forward had broken down in the warm up or been taken ill we would have had McCormack and Alfie on the bench , which is madness

We'll probably get the Hudds game thread later but would anyone change selection for that game? Looks like Handley out, Fus and Sangare in? Not sure when Bentley will be fit again.

Again, given the importance of this game and it being at home, this is about as first choice a side as we could hope for at this stage in the season.

Miller, Fus, Newman, Martin, Momirovski, Croft, Frawley, Mik, Ackers, Sangare, McDonnell, Goudemand, Smith; Lisone, Holroyd, O'Connor, McCormack.

Don't see what the hype is about McDonnell he doesn't get in any of the top 4/5 teams for me just ok no more.

He's a hard worker and runs good lines. Has the ability to tackle players onto their back to slow ptb ( legally).

I am also equally underwhelmed by McDonnell. I think someone posted stats of 4 drives for 23 metres against Warrington which is shocking.

Is it him choosing to not be involved, or is he being advised / coached not to do the hard yards?

Bizarrely it seems the backs have to do most of the dirty work these days (as well as score long range tries), and the forwards don't seem to do much more than tackle (passively).

McDonnell is good but his game needs to go up another notch for a club with our ambitions. He's not the only one mind - the same is true of the likes of Cam Smith, Oledski, Holroyd, O'Connor etc.

A player like Handley has improved significantly this season - others need to do so too, and impose themselves on games more often for longer periods. All are young enough to do this, if the desire is there.

Made no secret that I really rate McDonnell, and he has his best years ahead of him. For me he's the grafter, and I think he is physically bigger and more technically sound than Bentley in that role; although Bentley is probably more mobile and fills gaps in very well. Like a few other players, he would benefit from us signing one or two other really high quality forwards to distribute the load.

One of RS's better signings IMO.

There was a fabulous interview with Handley on Radio Leeds on Sunday. The work he is putting in mentally & physically is incredible. It's no wonder he has improved so much.

Yes it was excellent , a few others need to do the same !

I don't think its individual players alone though, its the whole tactical setup which isn't working. Peter Smith, in his usual 'I don't want to upset the club/coach' way alluded to that today - including the short kick-off nonsense.

Some of what Rohan wants to see is laudable - open, free flowing games - but he needs to stop hoping that everyone else will come round to his view of the world and adapt to what actually happens on the pitch, where, rather unshockingly to anyone who has watched more than one game, possession and field position matter. That means not making errors, not gifting possession and field position through short kick offs and the like, and trying to play the game at the right end of the field through defence and a good kicking game. Ask Wayne Bennett, Craig Bellamy or any other coach, and that would be where they'd start.

Rohan developed this style on the run in 2022 and it was remarkably successful as it was different and other teams couldn't quite work it out. But as we saw last year, giving away field position encourages even the worst teams to think they have a chance, and practically invites better ones to give you a thumping. Its been worked out, and now is a weakness rather than a strength.

If its not a deliberate tactic that's just as big an indictment on Smith (or even bigger) because it means the players aren't doing what he wants them to. Either way I don't see him lasting beyond this year if he cannot or will not make changes. We saw last year how the season can really slip away if you don't keep picking up wins, as we kept waiting for the magical turnaround, but it never happened. We were 'competing', or 'in the contest', but consistently losing too many games. Reading the room (i.e. this forum and elsewhere) the fanbase has zero patience for a repeat of last season's damp squib of an effort.

I just feel like you're all working yourself into a frenzy over "passive" defence - I think RS coaches for energy efficiency and trying to work the percentages at times, but something's going wrong in either the application of this, or the players' execution (i.e. errors).

Short kick-offs: favourite topic. So it does actually work to regain possession and position sometimes, and the win is significant when you pull it off. Statistically you take some losses turning the ball over on the opposition 40m rather than 20m. It's less far for your team to run up in D. It legitimately has some benefits. The problem has come where we have failed to defend the opposition coming up with the ball off the kick, or where we have overused the tactic/used it in the wrong situations. Whether this is coached or whether it's poor play selection by players none of us here really know. Miller attempting a 10m short kick-off from a drop-out when we're under pressure is crazy - I don't know what's going wrong there.

Last season we lost Leeming early to a spat dummy, we had Austin clearly causing problems throughout until it all came to a head, and MacDonald just disappeared (who does that?). We also had an epic injury list. I'm not saying RS got everything right either, but again there were legitimate reasons for poor results last season which were specific to last season. This forum is going to be pretty dire if we have about five threads running at the same time all year, each of which is ten blokes complaining about Rohan Smith.

Spot on.

Good points well made Jim. I think in general a lot of fans are just fatigued by the last few years and the very poor season last year, which as you say had various mitigating circs. RS simply has to deliver a good competitve season this year as most of us on here agreed at the season start, even the most glass half full people on here agreed. So far it's looking pretty precarious, we're 8th, lost 3 home games on a row, out of the cup and have key players like Handley injured and are light up front... it's 50/50 at the moment where this season is going and many fans are losing faith in RS. There's not a fans forum in the world that doesn't moan about their coaches/managers/Chief Execs etc... it's just human nature and sport.

The team could well click into gear and go on a good run and get into top 5 top 4 you never know, it would take a lot of injury luck as we're light in depth in the backs and up from but lets hope so..

Yep agree mate. I just think it’s still too early to judge RS on this season - we’ve had a couple of wins and decent results, then a couple of ordinary performances and a bad one against Wire.

I’m not entirely convinced he’s got the squad right this year still, question for me is whether it’s close enough to find some form, or close enough to add 2-3 good players next year and bridge the gap.

I think we’re all sick of mediocrity on the pitch over a very long period of time… In fact at times mediocrity would have been a gift!

I wouldn't say I'm in a "frenzy", but I dislike the way we are defending. This line speed is way too slow.
The successful teams, at the top of the table, have far greater line speed than us and put pressure on the opposition.
Go figure.

And that's a long list of excuses for an awful season last year.
Fair enough on most of them.

RS now has his own team and we have spent heavily on bringing in the players he wanted.
We have had the odd injury, but have mostly had a comparatively pretty fit squad to choose from.
We're 8th.
What are this seasons excuses?

It is far worse the two of you trying to defend the indefensible

Deeply flawed way of defending, bored and dismayed seeing it every week.

Trigger needs to be pulled on Rohan.