You cannot predict how a season is going to go based on one game, but I can understand people being worried after yesterday. It was the kind of performance that got Rohan Smith sacked, one where the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing. We have tthe much maligned Lachie Miller to come back, and not much else if yesterday was classed as our strongest team. The Aussie centre that has never played NRL may come in and be up to scratch, but he may be another “Momster”. Brad Arthur’s had most of them for half a playing season and a full pre season, I’m sure most people are worried about how much more he can squeeze out of this current squad.

[quote="leeds owl":3pv8wam0]You cannot predict how a season is going to go based on one game, but I can understand people being worried after yesterday. It was the kind of performance that got Rohan Smith sacked, one where the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing. We have tthe much maligned Lachie Miller to come back, and not much else if yesterday was classed as our strongest team. The Aussie centre that has never played NRL may come in and be up to scratch, but he may be another “Momster”. Brad Arthur’s had most of them for half a playing season and a full pre season, I’m sure most people are worried about how much more he can squeeze out of this current squad.[/quote:3pv8wam0] yes if i read correctly in to this post , it is saying we have not signed any decent players , so how is anyone expecting us to do much better than last season . you could have Wayne Bennet or his brother Gordon coaching this lot , it would not make much difference as there is little talent to coach. Oh and the plastic supporters in the plastic South stand create no atmosphere , its like a Library even before we go behind . Knock it down and put the old one back up

As a Wakey fan attending the match yesterday I expected us to beaten by Leeds (not by as many as some fans stated early on this thread) even moreso with some of our 'better' players like Rodwell, Griffin, Atoni, Nikotimo missing from the pack. Our bench was pretty light but as a club we reset last year with a clear attack and defence structure which last season and so far this season has seen us hard to score against. What was really pleasing is that 9 of the starting 17 played throughout the Championship last season. Looking at Leeds there wasn't much cohesion and we matched you and .ore down the middle and the edges. I did think we would get beaten with the sinbinning of Lino but credit to the team they held on. Two key decisions was the disallowed effort by Pratt and try given to Newman, either could have gone either way. Good luck for the season and we will be back soon at Headingly where you can try again

Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr

Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr

[quote="Trebor1":olewoo2u]Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr[/quote:olewoo2u] Not sure that really show how weak our pack was? If Oledzki didn't get a head knock he would have probably made more metres than Mckmeeken - would that show our pack was stronger than theirs? Yes we made slightly less metres per carry but I didn't see our pack get dominanted

[quote="Trebor1":olewoo2u]Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr[/quote:olewoo2u] Not sure that really show how weak our pack was? If Oledzki didn't get a head knock he would have probably made more metres than Mckmeeken - would that show our pack was stronger than theirs? Yes we made slightly less metres per carry but I didn't see our pack get dominanted

[quote="Exeter Rhino":23em98kz]At some point Arthur's tough talk is going to have to translate into progress on the field. I'm not saying it won't, and there is a long season to go... But I have to say I'm disappointed by the first half performance after what we've been hearing about all the work pre-season.[/quote:23em98kz] That performance was as bad as any I have seen in last 5 years. Shocking display and a Rohan smith type post match interview. Brad Arthur or Arthur Daley. Total incompetence

[quote="Trebor1":1re7bji9]Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr[/quote:1re7bji9] Full stats here, not sure how it shows how weak our pack was? https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/43416 We had 27 play the balls in the opposition half versus 19 (a rarity last year) Made 38 tackle busts compared to 13 for Wakefield Wakefield had 38 missed tackles compared to our 13. If were going of selected stats that would show our issue was a total lack of attacking threat not being dominated in the pack.

[quote="Trebor1":1re7bji9]Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr[/quote:1re7bji9] Full stats here, not sure how it shows how weak our pack was? https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/43416 We had 27 play the balls in the opposition half versus 19 (a rarity last year) Made 38 tackle busts compared to 13 for Wakefield Wakefield had 38 missed tackles compared to our 13. If were going of selected stats that would show our issue was a total lack of attacking threat not being dominated in the pack.

[quote="Bobtownrhino":3ths0qs4]That performance was as bad as any I have seen in last 5 years. Shocking display and a Rohan smith type post match interview. Brad Arthur or Arthur Daley. Total incompetence[/quote:3ths0qs4] Then you have a short memory, both Hull away games and saints away last year were far worse.

I would say Second Row is a bigger issue than the pack this year, Gannon needs to be starting instead of Bentley and I would put Cooper Jenkins in instead of McDonnel who I thought was really poor on Saturday

Whilst Saturday does not define the season. It was very disappointing after Arthur had spoken about making Headingley a fortress and getting off to a good start to get the fans back on side and some momentum in the team. Handley and Newman racing out of the defensive line on at leas5 5-6 occasions probably cost us as it gave them the field position to score the tries. I don't see Handley as a centre but suspect Arthur will stick with him. Newman never looks like he'll make a break from a good line, power or speed. His instinct is always to cut back inside. He looks a shadow of his former self. I thought Connor was very slow in bringing the ball back from kicks and possibly played a part in us starting sets on the backfoot. I also thought Hall and Lumb were slow in getting back at times to be an option for Connor to pass to from the kicks. Frawley is just not good enough. His kicking is pathetic. A 10 year old could put up a more dangerous bomb than him. He doesn't appear a loud voice either. I would definitely be playing Sinfield ahead of him. Ackers is possibly the most disappointing. I swear when he played for Salford, he would make 2-3 breaks a game from scooting from dummy half, however, I can barely remember him making a clean break for us. He seems slow and seems to go the wrong way quite often. If that's the level of his performance this season then he will need releasing. Oledzki for me just needs to be tougher and nastier, a bit like Holroyd. The size of him, he should be causing chaos. Bentley offers zero in attack. Gannon I'm hoping might be the player we need. McDonnell was ineffective cutting back inside. It was very much a typical Leeds performance of the last few years. They seem to raise their games for the tougher matches and lower themselves for the so called lesser sides. I think there is a mentality issue. The fact we got that performance after an Arthur pre-season is concerning. Lots of concerns for me and I suspect based on that match, we will continue to be inconsistent. That said, it would not surprise me if this team beat Saints away in the CC. We seem so hit and miss.

Not a single Leeds forward ran 100M with the ball. Our 4 props on the day took 41 drives between them for a total of 270M an average gain of 6M. This is why we lost, they don't work anything like hard enough with the ball. Everything else comes from the platform your front row sets (or doesn't). 3 of the Wakey starting pack ran more than 100M or more. Fix this and we will be OK, don't and it will be a long old season. Again.

[quote="batleyrhino":uwgl0hib]Not a single Leeds forward ran 100M with the ball. Our 4 props on the day took 41 drives between them for a total of 270M an average gain of 6M. This is why we lost, they don't work anything like hard enough with the ball. Everything else comes from the platform your front row sets (or doesn't). 3 of the Wakey starting pack ran more than 100M or more. Fix this and we will be OK, don't and it will be a long old season. Again.[/quote:uwgl0hib] Looking at the stats on the super league page, Wakefields props made 210 metres, so 60 metres less than ours, and that's with Mik going down with HIA

The Wakey Pack made more metres than the Leeds pack, Wakey starting pack 432M, Leeds starting pack 341M. Almost 100M more.

[quote="batleyrhino":2deqpck9]The Wakey Pack made more metres than the Leeds pack, Wakey starting pack 432M, Leeds starting pack 341M. Almost 100M more.[/quote:2deqpck9] Yes, but you said that our props were the reason we lost, when they actually outgained the Wakefield props.

[quote="Neruda":754sygyc]Yes, but you said that our props were the reason we lost, when they actually outgained the Wakefield props.[/quote:754sygyc] As I stated it was our backrowers that were ineffective not the props.

[quote="christopher":2x4xv7i6]Full stats here, not sure how it shows how weak our pack was? https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/43416 We had 27 play the balls in the opposition half versus 19 (a rarity last year) Made 38 tackle busts compared to 13 for Wakefield Wakefield had 38 missed tackles compared to our 13. If were going of selected stats that would show our issue was a total lack of attacking threat not being dominated in the pack.[/quote:2x4xv7i6] It showed not a single forward in a Leeds shirt made 100m and Wakefield’s did. Their pack out gunned us. Weak.

[quote="christopher":2x4xv7i6]Full stats here, not sure how it shows how weak our pack was? https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/43416 We had 27 play the balls in the opposition half versus 19 (a rarity last year) Made 38 tackle busts compared to 13 for Wakefield Wakefield had 38 missed tackles compared to our 13. If were going of selected stats that would show our issue was a total lack of attacking threat not being dominated in the pack.[/quote:2x4xv7i6] It showed not a single forward in a Leeds shirt made 100m and Wakefield’s did. Their pack out gunned us. Weak.

Sitting behind the sticks, it was clear to see that our three outside defensive players intentionally ran diagonally inwards when attempting to press the Wakey attack. This was why we were nearly always leaving overlaps on either wing. It looked as if this was an instruction rather than individual decisions. If we can address this issue then we would reduce the attack of the opposition considerably.

[quote="Trebor1":oa0v7dzx]It showed not a single forward in a Leeds shirt made 100m and Wakefield’s did. Their pack out gunned us. Weak.[/quote:oa0v7dzx] Their pack did but it wasn’t because of our props Our second rows were shocking. As was our edge defence, the gap to let Truman through was amateurish.

[quote="Rhino Rock":shy6ykgb]Sitting behind the sticks, it was clear to see that our three outside defensive players intentionally ran diagonally inwards when attempting to press the Wakey attack. This was why we were nearly always leaving overlaps on either wing. It looked as if this was an instruction rather than individual decisions. If we can address this issue then we would reduce the attack of the opposition considerably.[/quote:shy6ykgb] They did actually address this in the second half, what they didn’t address was the terrible attacking shape and structure.

After 20 minutes it felt like a pin being stuck into a balloon of optimism. To me, we are best the "off the field" club in Super League, as the attendance proves, but "on the field" we are 8th or 9th. How we can build up to a crescendo in pre-season and produce that is beyond disappointing. BA is saying all the right things, but Black and White it made not a jot of difference to the performance. Early days indeed, but our coach did not get a tune out of his players on Saturday. Let's hope the players start to translate the message against Salford and I mean the real Salford not the reserves!!

Even if our forwards get on top , which will not happen very often , our backs are not very good anyway . A full back who has a mistake in him any moment , a scrum half who is garbage , one of the best wingers in Super League pretending he is a centre , the most over rated centre in Super League who rarely has a good game , a thirty seven year old playing on the wrong wing.

I've taken a couple of days before posting anything mainly because I was so totally dejected by our performance. We all have our personal scapegoats (Ackers and the two first choice second rows lead the pack for me) but the truth is that collectively we were very poor. All the usual failings were on show from the first set of the game, and the atmosphere in the ground reflected that as the minutes dragged by. First game of the season, I know, but felt like every game of the last years. We cannot afford lose to Salford.

I do worry a bit that under Arthur we are in danger of looking like a poor man's version of the classic Bulls team - plan A is to dominate physically, and when that's not working team cohesion breaks down and it is every man for himself trying to win the game (guess what, we did the same plan B under Rohan). We've seemingly become quite conservative in attack all of a sudden. Whereas 'Rohanball' expected every player to have the combined handling skills of Lauitiiti, Crooks and Cleary, it's like Arthur wants the players to run through walls and tackle heroically for 80 minutes like Peacock, JJB and Sinfield combined. Still on the fence with Arthur, but I have to admit I was hoping to see a bit more for his much vaunted no-nonsense coaching and emphasis on the game being won on the advantage line... No point getting too worked up one game in though. Some slightly worrying stats re: the pack. I expected a lot more from the forwards given that we sacrificed two quota spots to bring in a couple of Aussie props. It is early days with Palasia, but Jenkins isn't even picked - not sure that's the best use of a quota spot unless it is part of a rotation, or is this concussion related? I'd be tempted to try Jenkins in the second row if Bentley and McDonnell don't improve. Jake Connor was a massive disappointment at full-back. He has a lackadaisical running style slightly reminiscent of Iestyn Harris with the ball in hand, but in defence it isn't a good look. If we stick him in the halves, presumably he'll need time to gel with Croft, and some will complain than he's blocking Sinfield. He'd be a better selection on the bench than unused Edgell, that's for sure.

Arthur’s stubbornness over Handley as a centre is a worry for me. Connor played his best trophy winning stuff at Hull as a 4 but needs Miller to come back which is weeks away. The new Aussie bloke has a lot on riding on him.

I'd rather Arthur makes changes early than wait and see if things improve. Firstly to give some players a kick up the arris and to try to fix some glaring issues, but more importantly to not let things slide into another wasted year. We've got limited reserves available, but two of them are quota players who ought to be in the 17 every week if they are worth anything. Behind them the squad is already looking thin - TNW and maybe O'Connor for next week, Sinfield probably not fit.