Doesn't this kind of back up rhinoms point about his consistency, as to me does his joke winning man of steel as he didn't perform at all from April.

That aside I have no strong feelings either way regarding chase, I agree that POTENTIALLY in a better team he would improve. There could also be an argument that surrounded by better players he won't stand out all, his England performances certainly don't point to him improving being around better players I personally have been unimpressed with chase in an England shirt.

Man of Steel vote is decided by the votes of his fellow SL players so I'm guessing you regard them as a joke? The Golden Boot best player in the world award this year was decided by the votes of a group of RL journos based in Brighouse. I know which award I believe was the biggest joke of all.


I pity any England halfback being ordered to play second fiddle to the ever-increasing demands of Sinfield at international level. Unfortunately, that's the only set of cards Chase has been dealt so far.

Why are we mentioning the golden boot? But as you mention it I think the MOS award is flawed and that year yes it was a joke IMO. Chase was very good till April and then rubbish. The MOS awards don't take account of the playoffs which is a flaw and club biase will always play a part in that award.
I also agree that the Golden boot award is a bit of a joke but I never said it wasn't.

Interesting point regarding sinfields demands at the international level, I assume you are privy to information that most of us are not. Or is it just speculation

from a cas fan point of proud to be a cas fan with cas performance very good in first wasnt impressed with the ref

What demands are these then?

Chase won't be playing second fiddle to anyone in the England squad anyway, if he heads to St George? Given that he only qualifies on residency and everything...so I wouldn't pity him too much.

the vast majority of NRL games are 5 drives and a kick, hunt the mistakes games. loads are dour.
leeds do it when it matters, thats what champion teams do

I think under the residency rule if he left for aus tonight he would still qualify under residency rules for the England team in the World Cup. A joke IMO but that's what I understand the rule to be

The demands consisted of a huge sulk and a threat of retiring at international level after the disastrous 2008 World Cup when he was utter crap throughout. He found it difficult fitting into the international team set up when he wasn't in charge and asked to perform unfamiliar roles he wasn't used to at club level. [uTRANSLATION[/u: He couldn't get his own way and take complete charge of the national side. Then McNamara came along as coach and offered him the freedom to play just how he plays for his club which Sinfield thinks is a good fit for the national side. Hmmmm... we shall see during the World Cup this year, eh?

[url=http://stevemascord.com/2013/02/19/the-a-list-kevin-sinfield-leeds-england/See here...[/url


It's irrelevant who partners Sinfield since whoever it is will have to play second fiddle to Sinfield by order! Whoever it may be who partners him has my sympathy.

So in other words your guessing that sinfield has made these "demands"

Ferdy - To say The Man of steel 2011 did nothing from April 2011 onwards is just a myth you have established in your brain. That year our league form slumped majorly from April onwards, no doubt about that, but a major contributing factor was season ending injuries to our 2 in form props. With that comes less territory and less of a platform for the halves. But Chase was pretty instrumental getting us to the semis of the cup, playing a major part in helping us see of Wakefield, Huddersfield & then pushing a certain other team all the way in the semis. I remember a game towards then end of the season at Wakefield which we nicked late on, something like 34-32 & I think Chase put forward 6 assists in that game. He was outstanding for all that season, even when we were decimated, 4 tries in a game against London, off the bench against wigan to be mom in a 22-22 draw 2 days after being mom for the Exiles V England.

Chase will be found out in the NRL the same way he would be had he moved to any of the big SL clubs. Chase does some very very good stuff, he also does some pretty awful stuff and runs up an awful lot of blind alleys.

Like Danny Brough, his mistakes are forgiven and his positives over-blown because he is looked at as a good player in a poor team. When Chase goes missing it is his props fault, when he tries something ridiculous that is a mile away from coming off it is because his team-mates arent on the same level as him, when he makes a mistake its because he is carrying the side.

Playing for a side like Leeds, and the same as he will discover in the NRL, that is completely reversed. Excuses arent made when you play for a side which is expecting to be challenge like they are in a team expecting to struggle. People stop looking for reasons why you are better than the result shows, and start looking for reasons you arent quite as good as results show.

The comparisons on this thread with Sinfield only highlight exactly what i'm saying.

If Chase goes back to the NRL, He will probably get 18months as a starter and no more than 3 seasons as a first grade player.

To be fair the same could be said of McGuire, Sinfield and Burrow......let's face it: our all important trio would similarly struggle in the NRL

You cannot say any such thing. If players like Luke Burgess and Ryan Tandy can get by in the NRL there is absolutely no reason to believe those players couldn't.

Its far easier for a forward to develop their game in the NRL - the main requirements would be to get up to speed defensively and cut out mistakes (and in some cases like Tom Burgess improve their fitness and mobility). I'd suggest a fair few SL forwards could be NRL regulars.

Its an entirely different kettle of fish in the main playmaking positions. I'm not saying none of our playmakers coud make it, but its a far bigger jump in requirements, as they'd need to improve their game in all dimensions to stay in the NRL for any length of time. Chase will need to improve his discipline and play to a structure, but he does have the raw materials to make it, as did a younger McGuire. If Chase doesn't adapt he'll vanish.

Suggesting that just because someone plays for a good team in SL they will automatically make it in the NRL are wide of the mark, as are suggestions that they automatically couldn't because they currently play in an inferior competition.

Rangi Chase is 27 years old, he hasnt got a huge amount of improvement left in him.

Chase will go from a team which makes excuses for his failures to a competition which will exploit them mercilessly.

The same happens at the big clubs in SL. Its why after a decade of unparalleled we still have people questioning the likes of Burrow, Mcguire and Sinfield, even though time and time again they show their quality in the very biggest games.

Its why we see scapegoats made out of the likes of Dennis Moran, Danny Orr, Michael Shenton, Weller Hauraki when they get a shot at the big time, its why we see players like Westerman, Pitts and Ambler touted as superstars before struggling to live up to it, Players like the under-dog, so a decent player playing in a poor team gets his failings blamed on someone else and his value elevated, a decent player playing for a big side is the reason they havent had the perfect season, and his value diminished.

Like Danny Brough, Rangi Chase is a 'decent' player but one with failings which are currently forgiven because he is playing in a poor side, but would be exploited if he made the step up.

As for which halfbacks we have which could make it in the NRL, imo, the answer is most. If the likes of Finch, Sherwin, Seymour can half decent NRL careers, I think the better halves in our league certainly could.

Sorry but from what I've seen very few British halfbacks would get a start in the NRL at anything other than the worst teams. Chase maybe 27, but doesn't have a lot of experience in the NRL. All I'm suggesting is that if he does knuckle down and work on his game, he at least has some of the ingredients of a good halfback. If he doesn't he'll fail. Too many British halfbacks don't have any of the required ingredients of a good player.

Seymour was rubbish for most of his NRL career. Finch started well but lucked out playing at the Storm with Cronk et al. He's gone from Wigan first team to backup for Widdopp. Sherwin had a great kicking game which worked very well with the massive pack at the Dogs which won the competition.

No NRL team would ever play a halfback pairing as bad as Wellens/Wilkin. A shedload of SL's halfbacks are still from overseas - Sammutt, Dobson, Green, Gower, Tim Smith to name a few. Given the disparity in salary cap, why aren't those players in the NRL? The answer is that they aren't considered good enough to get a start.

I watched City-Country yesterday, and I'd say both scrum halfs were better than anyone currently in SL, and yet neither is likely to get picked for NSW, and the best of NSW (seemingly Mitchell Pearce) is a long way behind Queensland's Cherry-Evans, who is himself way behind Cronk. This in a period where some people are moaning about the lack of quality young halfbacks in the NRL.

Tim Smith was VERY highly thought in Aus of at one stage of his career, it was never about what was going on on the field but off which meant Smith isnt having a good career in the NRL right now. He was awful on the field when he came to Wigan, went back and got a gig in Cronulla, and has come back to Wakefield and done ok, but not great. Smith isnt a great player, Yet he has not only played plenty of first grade NRL games, but excelled there for a period of time.

All three of our halfbacks are better than Tim Smith, all are better than Brett Seymour. I dont see any reason why all three couldnt have at the least decent NRL careers.

Surely one of the big issues with developing half backs here is that clubs simply can't afford to do it. A half back is a very specialised position and with a salary cap a Superleague club just can't afford to have a pile of them on their books - forwards are much more versatile so you can keep them and they can get game time, but halves - not a chance. It's far easier to rent one from Australia as and when you need - even if they are average.
Half backs need time to develop, specialised coaching, they need to fit to a team structure and they need experience. When I started watching Leeds we had at any one time at least three adult (over 21) 7's on the clubs books. There was an A team where they could play week in- week out with Leeds players and there was real competition for positions.

We won't change this unless we severly restrict imports (we must do this now for a number of reasons IMO), and change the cap system so clubs can afford to keep a wider range of players on their books - not have a squad dominated by back row forwards who can play centre if needed or prop if needed or play 6 if needed.

Who touted Pitts and Ambler as superstars?

Mostly the anti-Kirke brigade I think.

Both were pretty well thought of when we signed them, paid a fee for both of them as well iirc.

IIRC Ambler cost Leeds around £10K when he arrived from Salford. Pretty modest outlay for a 'superstar'.

Do you know of any other 18 year old Prop Forwards to have had a fee paid for them?

I know that 'superstars' don't usually change clubs for token amounts.

I don't think Ambler or Pitts were or are ever going to be what I would term as superstars and as such was surprised to see them mentioned alongside someone who could have become the next Paul Sculthorpe.

If others wish to see them in that category that is entirely up to them but I would question their justification for using the term.

I suspect Leeds paid a small fee for Ambler as he was under contract at Salford and they had a gap in their Academy prop production line that needed filling not because he was seen as a superstar going cheap.

I thought Ambler was OOC when he signed for Leeds