Looks like Peter Smith is a bit peed off as well given his player ratings for the game, only Hall in the backs scoring more than 5 out of 10, and Gannon, Holroyd and Cam Smith on 6 in the forwards. Not sure how Smith got 6 though. This is so frustrating because it feels that despite a change of coach and another round of ins and outs, we've got almost exactly the same problems as last year, with some new ones in terms of edge defence added. The forwards are physically way too easy to dominate, without a single player in our starting lineup that opponents would be worried about tackling, our spine (partly because of the forwards) looks clueless and we generally lack speed. I know its very early, but I'd already look at Sinfield for Frawley for at least five games as soon as he's fit. The utter nothingness that Frawley offers is a marvel to behold, and he will not be part of any long term future. We desperately need one of our spine to take charge and move the team around, give the forwards a spray etc, and not wait for the coach to have a dig at half time. I'm more disappointed in Croft than Frawley for that though. You can see why Croft failed utterly as lead halfback in the NRL.

I should add that had Miller and Sivo been available things might have looked very different. Both of them would be expected to make big yards on kick returns, which would take some pressure off the forwards. Maye Clark-Wood will help there and Miller will be back at some stage. But there has to be a Plan B. Doesn't there?

That game encapsulated the last few seasons to be honest. The atmosphere was flat, it just felt like nobody really believed from the first whistle. I really enjoyed watching Wakey’s attack in the first half, they looked like a team that had been well coached and knew exactly what they were doing. It would be easy to say the forwards didn’t get us rolling forward and give the backs chance in broken field, but let’s be honest, that could have been a Rohan Smith team out there today in attack.

I've just watched the highlights, how was that first Wakefield try given? Johnston looked to definitely be in touch.

[quote="Once were Loiners":22zfgp85]I should add that had Miller and Sivo been available things might have looked very different. Both of them would be expected to make big yards on kick returns, which would take some pressure off the forwards. Maye Clark-Wood will help there and Miller will be back at some stage. But there has to be a Plan B. Doesn't there?[/quote:22zfgp85] Wakey had 5 first team players missing but don’t worry, we’ll see ya in a few months at Belle Vue. Signing Connor was a desperate act, your return to the top table still seems a way off unfortunately.

[quote="Once were Loiners":2bk0g1ck]That's how we let in tries. Batley is saying we fundamentally don't have enough oomph in our pack. I know Oledzki's stats will no doubt look nice again, but he just doesn't have a big impact with or without the ball. Palasia is a worker not a dynamo, as are both our starting second rows. Its all a bit blah. And don't get me started on Cam Smith.....[/quote:2bk0g1ck] Precisely this, we get dominated far too easily, and I think this is what BA is referring to when he talks about simplicity, forwards before spreading it, constantly turning a forward back inside is easy to defend, but you must go forwards to create space. If we fix that, forwards go straight forward hard, win the collision, get a quick ptb, then the field opens up for the halves and backs. If you don’t do this, everything is Hail Mary…

First, a massive congrats to Wakey, who were excellent. Their shift plays out wide were akin to Cas of 2017. Speed of passing and play selection were night and day difference between us and them. Great to see Gannon out there, and thought he was one of our better players. Also thought Holroyd looked ok, and unlike others I thought Cam was decent going forward. While Croft and Connor had bad day, I just don’t see what Frawley or Ackers are offering. They’re painfully slow (thought Ackers was meant to be rapid!!), and their play selection is amateur. If Sinfield and O’Connor don’t look at those 2 and think they should be taking their starting spots in the next few weeks, that would amaze me. First week of the season, Wigan have lost and looked toothless in attack, Hull KR nearly lost to Cas who looked amateur last week. Loads of time and no need to panic yet, but it was a let down of a performance given all the talk in the off season

[quote="Trebor1":290wgw5p]Lost count how many times Smith killed an attack. I really don’t rate him. Needs to improve a lot.[/quote:290wgw5p] He's played under every coach since Brian Mac plus a couple more while out on loan. He won't improve, he can't improve. He's not alone either, our player development is dreadful.

I like Cam Smith as a person, I like his guts in defence as a player. You can see the Lee Crooks influence. He’s no Dave Heron.

Awful, but not suprising, if theres one thing you can guarantee, when this group of players are confident, they are over confident, and serve up a stit show every time. Pathetic, brain dead, bunch who think they're better than they are

Wakey fan in peace. After pounding us and looking 3 gears quicker than us in the first half on Boxing Day, then obviously watching the highlights of your game against Wigan I genuinely thought you’d be pushing top 4. You were completely nullified yesterday, Frawley was atrocious (never rated him) and in my opinion the most overrated english players in SL Connor, Bentley and Newman were atrocious too. Handley is not a centre but is a class winger. If you look at the Wakefield trinity stats which are easy to find you’ll see why you were beat. It was a clinical workman like team performance that beat you and the score was flattering. If everything clicks you have some team, but by that performance you look like you have too many individuals and not a team.

Cam poked his nose through a couple of times. Was ok going forward but has a bad habit of slowing the ball as a pivot.

[quote="Barrie’s Glass Eye":tor5aas7]Cam poked his nose through a couple of times. Was ok going forward but has a bad habit of slowing the ball as a pivot.[/quote:tor5aas7] He wants to watch back how 35 year old Pitts played yesterday. That’s why he’s never been in or around the England RL set up. His ball playing ability isn’t there, he’s one dimensional, just carried forward and stagnates the attack. He’s a powerful running 13, but a quality international 13 he is not. Dare say his brother was a better play playing forward.

Was really hoping for a noticeable difference after the "Brad Arthur effect" hype, most of the issues still there sadly.

The video ref and lino had shockers surely the wingers legs were on the floor over the touch line when he passes the ball? Still I thought we were second best. Trueman bosses the game in the fist half and the wakey props outplayed ours.

[quote="Pat Bateman":1wp3u0bh]Wakey fan in peace. After pounding us and looking 3 gears quicker than us in the first half on Boxing Day, then obviously watching the highlights of your game against Wigan I genuinely thought you’d be pushing top 4. You were completely nullified yesterday, Frawley was atrocious (never rated him) and in my opinion the most overrated english players in SL Connor, Bentley and Newman were atrocious too. Handley is not a centre but is a class winger. If you look at the Wakefield trinity stats which are easy to find you’ll see why you were beat. It was a clinical workman like team performance that beat you and the score was flattering. If everything clicks you have some team, but by that performance you look like you have too many individuals and not a team.[/quote:1wp3u0bh] All fair points nothing much to disagree with there. Think Wakey will go well this season, expected so much more from our lot.

[quote="Broadacres":2nlrlrnf]Was really hoping for a noticeable difference after the "Brad Arthur effect" hype, most of the issues still there sadly.[/quote:2nlrlrnf] He is a high quality coach, nothing to blame now but the poor quality players. Too many still not good enough and never will be. Connor Newman Frawley Ackers Bentley Smith just the tip of the iceberg, connor will get a right hounding this season unless he improves massively.

The whole 'culture' thing at Leeds just seems so forced and not authentic I think thats a big problem, that they're trying to create something thats very cliche and corporate. Following Leeds (even from your sofa) has become a pretty depressing pastime. With way more resources than petty much every other club they keep getting it wrong. Think I'm logging out for my own health til signs are we might see a return to better days..

[quote="rollin thunder":3rct4f47]He is a high quality coach, nothing to blame now but the poor quality players. Too many still not good enough and never will be. Connor Newman Frawley Ackers Bentley Smith just the tip of the iceberg, connor will get a right hounding this season unless he improves massively.[/quote:3rct4f47] Not really blaming him, just disappointed with the performance, if he can't get a tune out of these players, not sure who could.

[quote="rollin thunder":2y2ia3f9]All fair points nothing much to disagree with there. Think Wakey will go well this season, expected so much more from our lot.[/quote:2y2ia3f9] I expected a lot more too, especially after Boxing Day and the Wigan friendly, coupled with Brad Arthur as your coach. I just believe you have some incredibly overrated players ie Bentley, Newman and Connor. Your team will forever be compared to the glory days that seem a long time ago now. What’s happening with you guys is eerily similar to Manchester Utd, trying to buy success…… well it’s either that or you just got outplayed by us who evidently are decent and have a boat load of confidence coming up from the championship (like Leigh did) and performed really well.

[quote="Broadacres":pxs3nruo]Not really blaming him, just disappointed with the performance, if he can't get a tune out of these players, not sure who could.[/quote:pxs3nruo] Merlin The Wizard ? I think we’ve got to accept nobody can change the physical profile or inherent poor decision making of the vast majority of this squad. We may have a chance with the likes of Gannon and Lumb, but what you see is what you get basically with the rest of them. Motivation should never be an area for massive improvement at this level, the players should have been out of the door ages ago if they were lacking in that department. Maybe all the temporary rebuilds have got us all believing that bringing in new mediocre players as a replacement for other mediocre players will somehow work.

[quote="Pat Bateman":36jq2th2]I expected a lot more too, especially after Boxing Day and the Wigan friendly, coupled with Brad Arthur as your coach. I just believe you have some incredibly overrated players ie Bentley, Newman and Connor. Your team will forever be compared to the glory days that seem a long time ago now. What’s happening with you guys is eerily similar to Manchester Utd, trying to buy success…… well it’s either that or you just got outplayed by us who evidently are decent and have a boat load of confidence coming up from the championship (like Leigh did) and performed really well.[/quote:36jq2th2] The trying to buy success thing is something all sides with the resource to do so try. Wakey included these days. Sometimes the signings turn out well, sometimes not. Worse case, you're stuck with an iffy player 3 years max, probably less, who you then replace. Of far greater consequence is average quality home grown retained for multiple years. Obviously they help generate the culture but if they're mediocre talents then results will reflect this.

[quote="Clearwing":3rsdqg79]The trying to buy success thing is something all sides with the resource to do so try. Wakey included these days. Sometimes the signings turn out well, sometimes not. Worse case, you're stuck with an iffy player 3 years max, probably less, who you then replace. Of far greater consequence is average quality home grown retained for multiple years. Obviously they help generate the culture but if they're mediocre talents then results will reflect this.[/quote:3rsdqg79] I don’t agree. There’s a difference in trying to buy success and trying to create a culture to have prolonged sustainable success. Powell and Ste Mills have made it no secret the number one thing they look at when they sign a player is his personality. We are with the new backing starting to create a top culture to then hopefully target trophies within the next 5 years. Leeds are targeting trophies now instead of getting their house in order. Having the likes of Connor, Bentley and Newman who are well known to be marmite characters won’t help this. These types of players would have been no where near the Leeds team of old. You’re losing your identity and we are creating a new one for us.

[quote="Pat Bateman":v6vr1s46]I don’t agree. There’s a difference in trying to buy success and trying to create a culture to have prolonged sustainable success. Powell and Ste Mills have made it no secret the number one thing they look at when they sign a player is his personality. We are with the new backing starting to create a top culture to then hopefully target trophies within the next 5 years. Leeds are targeting trophies now instead of getting their house in order. Having the likes of Connor, Bentley and Newman who are well known to be marmite characters won’t help this. These types of players would have been no where near the Leeds team of old. You’re losing your identity and we are creating a new one for us.[/quote:v6vr1s46] Good posting, certainly food for thought.

It's one game. Let's not get ahead of oursens. Wakey will go well. Leeds will go well.