Which and why?

Saints in Cup. Bradford away. Salford at home.

Why? because I said so.

Seems to be a bit of acase of viewing the glass as half empty though. Name another club that has won 3 of the last 5 Championships?

Not sure I agree with Saints in the cup, I would say that saints away was closer, as was the bulls game.

I'd say that one or two of the games lost by one score could be candidates as you could argue that the extra class would have made a difference.

We don't know though. Had we signed Eastwood and a centre, they may have got snapped in the Festive Challenge and we never saw them again

Can I just say. I have no issues with the centre position, except when Smith was out. Hence why I said those games with no Smith.

The forwards is where I agreed with the poster saying it would have made a difference.

Thats fair enough. As they say, forwards decide who wins the game, back decide by how much

St Helens won the GF 3 times in 4 years from 1999 to 2002 and also played in 2 CCF winning one and losing one. During the SL era outside this period they won a further 5 CCF, losing none.

St Helens won the GF 3 times in 5 years from 2001 to 2005 and also played in 2 CCF winning one and losing one. During the SL era outside this period they appeared in a further 3 CCF, winning one.

Leeds won the GF 3 times in 5 years from 2004 to 2008 and also played in 1 CCF which they lost. During the SL era outside this period they won a further 3 CCF, winning one.

As I see it this currently puts us marginally behind Bradford and way behind St Helens although a GF win this year will edge us ahead of Bradford. St Helens is more difficult to decide given the CC record.

That's better, I think. Nice work BTW.

He used the term "a club of our strength". I thought we were under strength?



"Should" our club have won more CC's? I'd like them to have but you can never say any club "should" win because whatever we write on here and whatever the message board experts and statisticians say games are won and lost on different criteria than the perceived strength of a player, a list of players or a club. That is the beauty of sport. That is the greatness of sport. The 1998 Wigan team "should" have won the CC shouldn't they? Those 17 Sheffield players and John kear had other ideas.

Why the use of the last 11 years, btw? Leeds have a pretty decent record for CC wins overall. Its' the Championship that has often eluded this great club but not in these pas 5 seasons.

That is why we "should" sit back and be appreciative of this great squad and this great management team.

The reason I used 11 years was to include the last win. If I'd wanted to be negative I would have said once in the last 30 years.

Whilst you point our that Wigan lost to Sheffield in 1998 as a particular game they still won quite a few CC during their period of dominance. My point was that during a period where Leeds have been one of the dominant 2/3 teams their return has been the poorest of the lot and only on par with the likes of Hull and, as you say, Sheffield.

I have no expectation to win any competition any season as that is what I have been used to. I have a hope that we will win trophies and that hope has been fulfilled over the last few years and I hope that we again win the GF this season. That said history will show that during a period of dominance our GF return was very good whereas our CC return was poor.

And BTW I do sit back and appreciate this squad as the most successful in my supporting days. I also feel the management have done a great job and despite criticisms on here GH must take a lot of the applause for the achievements of the club.

I think it'd be fair to say though that the "competition" is a lot stronger during our current "golden run".
So whilst it is pretty dissapointing on a personal level it's not a real surprise that we haven't been better in these cup games and plus we lost 2 finals by a total of 3 points!

What stronger than during Bradfors run or St Helen's run, IMO not really. There have only been two teams dominating during Leeds's run (Maybe Bradford as well in 2004), Bradford had a strong Leeds and St Helens team during their run. Looking at the tables the other teams haven't really closed the gap to the top teams.

Sorry but I don't see that a comparison with St Helens has any relevance to the assertion that the current period has been one of the most successful in Leeds' history. My point was that not only have previous generations of Leeds fans not been so lucky but that some of the attitude on this thread seems to be that, when presented with 3 Championships, some people's preferred reaction is to say "pfft, not won many Cups though have we?" which seems almost perversely negative. I'm a great believer in enjoying what you've got (of which there has been plenty lately in this instance) rather than ignoring it in favour of the stuff you haven't.

The 1st team playing squad is understrength this season and that is widely acknowledged from the Leeds CEO down to humble internet message boards contributors.

He'd better have something up his sleeve to fix it then. We could win the championship this year, as the first 19 are good enough. Outside of that I think we struggle. OUr young lads seem decent when the come into the team, but I don't think they would all be able to step up like the McGuires, Diskins and Burrows of yesteryear did

No question that he should be applauded as part of the Leeds successes but that cuts both ways.



Just out of interest who are you nominating as number nineteen in your squad there, who presumably takes Eastwood's place?

I was actually making the point re-wigans great cup run!!
Where we have been strong and successful we have had a stronger all round comp than wigan did.
Yes saints and bradford have had better cup records but like i said we've lost 2 finals by a total of 3 points plus lok at how "unfancied teams have made cup finals Giants,catalans,hull which indicates the competition is much stronger!

I dont think people are been ungratefull for what we got, or been negative.

The issue still remains though of what could have been had we strengthened when it appeared we should have done.

Our own CEO has openly admitted each season that we do not spend the cap total, and always leave space open in case a top player becomes available. That is fully acceptable when you have a squad you are 100% happy with. But the fact like this season that one of its top signings (Eastwood) did not materialize, will always lead to accusations of taking the eye of the ball.

In the last 6 years we seem to have had these opportunities where are dominance could go into another gear and the winning therefore becoming even greater. But for some reason we did not take it, and did not stregthen at the right times.

That is what is a little dissapointing to people. Nobody can complain for what we have been given though.

my 19 senior squad would be:

Webb
Donald
Smith
Senior
Hall
McGuire
Burrow
Leuluai
Buderus
Peacock
Jones-Buchanan
Lauiti'iti
Sinfield

Bailey
Ablett
Kirke
Diskin

Burgess
Gibson

With acadamy backup coming from

Watkins
Jones-Bishop
McShane
Worral
Allan
Manning
Ratu

Sorry but that still looks like a capable eighteen there to me. Perhaps if we'd seen a bit more of Manning earlier in the season he could have made the top nineteen by the season end and bolster the pack options.




I agree that we struggle outside the top eighteen which is why I believe the squad is vulnerable to injury absences. They could yet be lucky with injuries overall (and the early CC exit must have helped in that regard), have their best eighteen available at the business end and find a bit of form to successfully defend their title. Fingers crossed eh.

(I still think it would have been a good idea to spend what is permitted under the cap and replace leaving personnel rather than chance an injury light season and an early exit from the Challenge Cup in order to defend the title though.)

We have had a sort of running battle over the year your and I. I think you are right, in that we shouod be looking to recruit to strengthen the squad as much as possible.

the way I see it is that this player has to be the right man for the job. At the moment our first 18/19 is as strong as any, and we have generally had a fit squad to choose from. As a result I think that we can take time to really fix the issue, rather than rush, and get someone really good. Compare the recent overseas signing with those 5-10 years ago, and they seem to fit in a lot better.

I would love a new signing to boost the strength of the squad, but I wouldn't want it to be ill thought out, as it could have more nagative consequences than positive ones if not properly researched.

If the right plaeyr for the club is available then we should shift heaven and earth to get him, as we don't want to lose him to a rival, but aside from what we see on the park, we don't know what that criteria is.

I'm more than happy to be playing the waiting game, and give some of the youngsters a chance to show what they can do in the short term. However, should a long term injury happen to a core player (Sinfield, Peacock, McGuire, Burrow, Webb) then we should be looking at how that impacts this season's and next seasons sqaud and chances of claiming silverware

I wonder whether Saints are now feeling the effect of the cup runs and grand finals over the last few years.. seems to be quite a few injuries stacking up...

It's neither your nor my job to equip the squad and neither of us are in any position to know what went wrong in the off season and who should be held accountable for the failure (if failure it was.)

What we do know however is that a key import failed to materialise and Leeds have not managed to replace someone who was deemed necessary during the off season. Leeds (at this point) have deferred Eastwood's contract for twelve months only although I personally don't believe we'll ever see Eastwood in a Leeds shirt but that's a seperate issue.

Let's hope this saga doesn't now impact on plans for 2010.

Thats what I hope. I belive a lot of time went into the Eastowwd signing, and on the face of it, he looks like he would fit with the squad, and is of the right calibre. Finding a player to fill his shorts (:lolicon_smile.gif will not be easy, and I'd rather we spent time to get it right, than end up with the Sam Moa's of this world

Improving every week from what I've seen lately despite Hull performing poorly overall.