[u2012 England Elite Training Squad
[/u
Carl Ablett: Leeds Rhinos, Hunslet Parkside
Ryan Bailey: Leeds Rhinos, Milford
Chris Bridge: Warrington Wolves, Waterhead
Tom Briscoe: Hull FC, Featherstone Lions
Danny Brough: Huddersfield Giants, Eastmoor Dragons
Rob Burrow :Leeds Rhinos, Featherstone Lions
Garreth Carvell: Warrington Wolves, Stanningley
Josh Charnley: Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks
Rangi Chase: Castleford Tigers, Dannevirke Tigers
Eorl Crabtree: Huddersfield Giants, Huddersfield YMCA
Leroy Cudjoe: Huddersfield Giants, Newsome Panthers
Ryan Hall: Leeds Rhinos, Oulton Raiders
Zak Hardaker: Leeds Rhinos, Featherstone Lions
Ian Henderson: Catalan Dragons, Terrigal
Gareth Hock: Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Judes
Ben Jones-Bishop: Leeds Rhinos, Queens
Jamie Jones-Buchanan: Leeds Rhinos, Stanningley
Jonny Lomax: St Helens, Orrell St James
Danny McGuire: Leeds Rhinos, East Leeds
Michael McIlorum: Wigan Warriors, Queens
Adrian Morley: Warrington Wolves, Eccles
Lee Mossop: Wigan Warriors, Hensingham
Sean O’Loughlin: Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Patricks
Jamie Peacock: (captain) Leeds Rhinos, Stanningley
James Roby: St Helens, Blackbrook
Kevin Sinfield: Leeds Rhinos, Waterhead
Sam Tomkins: Wigan Warriors. Wigan St Patricks
Kallum Watkins: Leeds Rhinos, Latchford Albion
Kris Welham: Hull KR, Myton Warriors
Ben Westwood: Warrington Wolves, Normanton
Jon Wilkin: St Helens, East Hull
Kirk Yeaman: Hull FC, Myton Warriors

[u2012 England Knights Squad[/u

Joe Arundel: Castleford Tigers, Castleford Panthers
Jodie Broughton: Salford City Reds, Queens
Chris Clarkson: Leeds Rhinos, East Leeds
Paul Clough: St Helens, Blackbrook
Mike Cooper: Warrington Wolves, Latchford Albion
Rhys Evans: Warrington Wolves, Burtonwood Bulldogs
Liam Farrell: Wigan Warriors, Wigan St Pats
Dale Ferguson: Huddersfield Giants, Featherstone Lions
Mark Flanagan: St Helens, Saddleworth Rangers
Lee Gaskell: St Helens, Blackbrook
Josh Hodgson: Hull KR, Hull Dockers
Danny Houghton: Hull FC, East Hull
Shaun Lunt: Huddersfield Giants, Ellenborough Rangers
Jermaine McGillvary: Huddersfield Giants, Deighton Juniors
Richie Myler: Warrington Wolves, Halton West Bank
Larne Patrick: Huddersfield Giants, Townville Tigers
Stefan Ratchford: Warrington Wolves, Wigan St Patricks
Chris Riley: Warrington Wolves, Woolston Rovers
Matty Smith: Salford City Reds, Blackbrook
Scott Taylor: Hull KR, Skirlaugh
Liam Watts: Hull KR, Featherstone Lions
Joe Wardle: Huddersfield Giants, Ovenden
Gary Wheeler: St Helens, Blackbrook Royals
Elliot Whitehead: Bradford Bulls, West Bowling

The selection of a few players in the Elite Training Squad are totally wrong IMO.
The following should not be in the squad having represented another nation at full international level.

Danny Brough(Scotland)
Michael McIlorum(Ireland)

Until this is sorted Rugby League will never be taken serious at international level.

The only way international rugby league will be taken seriously again is if we go back to being GB

Why have you excluded Chris Bridge, Gareth Carvell and Ian Henderson from your list?

I thought maye Ryan Atkins would have got into that squad.
Not so sure we need the services of Chase anymore .

Could name a pretty good team of Rhinos, we can manage with 12 right?

Bring back GB

I wouldn't.

Usual debate about feelings of national identity etc, but I would need some convincing in the cases of all 5 that anything has changed in their circumstances other than that they hadn't previously been deemed good enough to play for England. Since none of them, as far as I know (I'm prepared to be corrected) have ever been resident in Scotland and weren't born there, it's hard to remove my cynical hat.

My cynical hat also remains firmly on my head with Rangi Chase. Acknowledging the possibility that his choice reflects a genuine feeling of allegiance to his country of residence, I just can't quite believe it given how little time passed, and how little else in his material situation appeared to have changed, between his stated aspirations to play for NZ and his decision to play for England.

I suppose though, we should defer to the England coach, and trust that he is happy with the motivations of the players he has selected.

On a happier note, it's pleasing (to me, not to you I don't suppose Keith) to see the entire Leeds 3/4 line selected for this squad.

are burgess and ellis only not in as they are in the NRL?

Who are we due to play when the Exiles game goes ahead? Surely we won't play with that volume of players missing!?

I'm surprised by the omission of Atkins & Shenton from either squad.
No Luke Robinson either.
None of the Aussie based players (8 in total I think) were considered.
IMV Hardaker is fortunate to be in the elite squad.

Well we've deliberately rearranged the Wakey game for the Monday after one of the exiles games, so there's not much getting around that one!

A severe oversight on my part, for which I have given myself a good old rollicking.

I'm confident that none of the Leeds players will look out of their depth on the international stage against Wales and France. The same would apply to the two faux international fixtures against Exilia.

The most dissapointing thing for me is that these faux international fixtures present a much stronger test than Wales and France. And teams like Wales and Scotland will never get better while their best Players (brough, Henderson etc...) can choose to change their international team as they like and play for England.

Don't worry about it. The problem is this 'England' malarkey. As others have pointed out, we should play as GB. That's our international RL heritage and it simplifies matters concerning national identity. I don't care who is selected to play for England. It matters not a jot to me as I consider myself British.

I must admit if it was up to me I'd go rather have a GB side.

As a matter of interest, why do you not consider yourself a citizen of the United Kingdom? What do you have against Northern Ireland? Or, for that matter why not European? Why draw the arbitrary line at a collection of three countries if you don't feel your identity is covered by just the one?

Because my passport says I'm a British citizen.


My passport says I'm a British citizen which constitutes the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.


Europe isn't a country. It's an economic union. My passport says I'm a British citizen which constitutes the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as well as being a member of the European Union.


Which three countries have I drawn an arbitrary line at?

How come we have 2 games against Exiles this season. Aren't our top players complaining we have too many games?

It'd be hard to see where we'd get space to re-arrange a game, with the extra game from the WCC still to be fitted in as has been mentioned above

I hate agreeing with you, but I have no idea how, even in my own most wildly optimistic moments, I'm struggling to see how I can get excited about an international series with Wales and France. The Exiles game is an amusing carnival show and might at least be entertaining, though not terribly meaningful, but the other two are traditionally warm up matches for something juicier.

I agree, with the caveat that nationality and national identity is a little more complex for many people than what it says on your passport, and I don't think considering yourself English (which I do as a first level) necessarily precludes you from considering yourself British or UK - the terms often being used interchangeably - at the next level (which I also do). It is also perfectly possible to further see yourself as European (which I don't except at the most genetically anthropological level). It is also possible to genuinely identify yourself with two countries (dual nationality - I have a couple of good friends who are married to people of different nationalities who are raising children of dual nationality who will legitimately feel a connection to two countries - one English/German, one Russian/Armenian, even more complicatedly born in the UK) or to identify yourself with a nationality not available on a passport (Catalan, Basque and Roma spring to mind first here, there are plenty more).

This is why forming concrete "fact" opinions on eligibility for sports teams is so difficult. Increasingly, in Europe at least, it is one of the few areas of life where the distinctions between nations still have any consequence for someone's practical (rather than emotional) existence.

But, in summary, I agree, we should play as GB. Or GB and Ireland if people prefer. GB&I makes a little less sense geographically, but has some precedent.

It should GB&NI as the Republic is a truly independent nation. We should follow the line of the BOA, not the RFU. But as things stands if you have represented Scotland for example, you not be able to change to England, or like Harrison Hansen from England(at Academy level) to New Zealand to Samoa,

I like the idea of "England Knights" but i would have them play a "shadow" Tri -nations when the 1st team comp is ongoing and play against the Kiwi and Aussie u23's.
In terms of 1st team for me GB should be the flag under which we perform and i'd reinstate the "Ashes" tours every 4 years.
Whilst we play the Ashes again i'd have the Knights competing with their u23 counter-parts.
In terms of France ,Wales ,Ireland and Scotland etc etc they too could compete with the Knights as "mid-season" tests with the ultimate goal for the home nations to be called uop to the GB squad.
France could enter the u23 series v kiwis ,Aussies and the Knights and IF they subsequantly improve maybe they could be considered for a future 4 nations comp.
In the southern hemisphere i'd have a regular series between Tonga ,Fiji ,Samoa and PNG and the Maori again with evetual winer getting a guest spot at the new 4 nations down under but the series has to be more structered and competitive i'e home and away tests then an eliminator.

What's wrong with Henderson being included? He's from Torquay after all