Of course you wouldn't - what it says is prominent membership of the EU doesn't prevent you from economic downturn.

To be honest, I'm not overly bothered about who is "in control", I would prefer to have the most prosperous and safest future for my family and friends, and the rest of the world as well.
Does being outside the EU give me any of these, I dont think so.
As far as taking back control







The UK will remain as the puppet of the USA, as it has been since the second world war and that is very, very unlikely to change.
The whole Brexit issue is just political posturing, with some whipped up hysteria thrown in for good measure.

All absolutely fair points.

What a completely transparent straw man.
Membership of the EU doesn't protect a country from global trends or domestic economic troubles. Nobody ever said it did.

Memberships makes everyone incrementally better off, on all sides of the deal, it's a mutually beneficial arrangement that lifts all ships but certainly doesn't prevent them going through stormy waters.

Leaving that mutually beneficial deal with nothing more than an "it'll be alright" amount of thought and preparation is the economically suicidal bit. We'll all endure a recession and in the long run will be poorer, have less influence on regulations which affect us, less say on standards our companies have to adhere to and a diminished standing in the world.

That is one valid point of view.

If you think we have any influence on what goes on in the EU I think you are badly mistaken - Cameron voted against the EU Treaty - the EU simply ignored him despite the fact he was supposed to have a veto.

Membership does is allow the richer countries to prop up the poorer ones in the longer-term hope that they prosper - not sure that is happening but the theory is good.

I'm sorry but this is just wrong, spectacularly wrong. Huge chunks of the way the EU operates are down to British involvement, shaped to suit British interests or based on British preferences. It's incredibly ill informed to repeat this utter rubbish about "them" imposing things on us without any say. We've always had hugely outsized influence, not least in the shaping of financial regulations which have been lovingly crafted to suit the city of London. Not all of which I'm comfortable with but which are British to the core.

But look elsewhere. From health and safety requirements (this is such a British thing) down to even the introduction of private markets into state industries, British Tory policy lifted direct and implemented such that you see poor old Trenitalia and SNCF split up into infrastructure and train operating companies with open access requirements. Everywhere you look you see evidence of Britain getting the policy it wanted.


The mind boggles if you have somehow been led to believe that there are any examples of poorer countries joining the community and not very quickly seeing improved growth and trade and higher living standards. Ourselves and the republic of Ireland in the 70s to the eastern bloc countries today are vastly different places to before they began to trade with each other and benefit from investment that helped poorer areas lift themselves up (and, of course, build those motorways to more speedily get our goods to their markets).

He's a Tory, they only pretend that they want people to prosper when, all they really want is self importance and having someone to laud their wealth over.
The Harry Enfield sketch sums up your "average" Conservative "I'm considerably richer than you" - remember to sneer.

The difference is some us employ people - contributing is a risky business!! All you want is more CT, more tax of the well paid so we can increase your salary in your cushy little risk-free public sector job - you aren't suggesting you earn less so others can earn more are you!!

I am actually - I'd be personally worse off, but society would be better off; and since I'm a member of that society, I'm quite happy for that to be the case.

Altruism alive and kicking - in words at least.

In deeds also - I'm a fully paid up member of the Labour party, and will 100% be voting for them at the GE; and taking disciplinary action against any of my employees who can't provide photographic evidence that they have done the same. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

Voting for Labour - your cruelty know no bounds

Public sector ?

I run my own business and contribute through vat collections, corporation tax, NI, PAYE.
Plenty of risk, not enough reward but, I have a strong social conscience

I hope your employees all vote Tory, just out of spite from your dictatorship rule.

I suspect he doesnt employ anyone that's stupid enough to vote for that shower.

You really do take after your masters.



I was going to ask what you would do about any Jewish employees but I doubt a "paid up member" would ever hire any.



I really do wonder about the most ardent and devoted Labourites. If you believe in the same extreme and anti-UK/capitalism/West ideologies Corbyn and McDonnell have advocated all their lives (but have watered down in the face of increased scrutiny and in an attempt to appeal to all sides), fair enough. If you're anything else, you're a puppet and a muppet and need to give your head a wobble.

That makes two of us - so you don't pay CT but pay capital gains what kind of business do you run? - you benefit from the cashflow of collecting VAT?

How does your social conscience manifest itself in the way you treat your staff?

My error, wandering mind
Corporation tax not capital gains



My staff are well paid and happy with their treatment, working conditions etc, etc.

The social conscience is my own and I'm happy to pay the relevant taxes etc and dont actually believe that right now these should be cut, especially if the result of this is to squeeze those at the bottom of the pile.
We have an ageing population which will take more and more of the social care and health budget and to be frank, as a nation, we have to decide the best wat of financing it's growing needs.
There should be a grown up debate on the health service and not just leave it as a political football.

Right now, we have Boris making promises that we just know that he wont keep and Corbyn promising to spend every last penny and then some.
However, we have to get through Brexit before any of us have a clue just what may be available for either party to spend.

Boris has gone down exactly the same route as May, in trying to increase the Tory majority and he could well suffer the same fete, possibly a hung parliament, which at the current time, wont solve anything.

Actual lols - as I believe the kids say.

Meanwhile, after all the smears and nonsense about JC being a Russian asset, it turns out it was Gove and Johnson and their Vote Leave cronies all along; but they are suppressing the report to hide the facts, and the MSM is characteristically supine on the matter.

Hey ho.

I doubt anyone actually thinks Corbyn is a Russian agent. The Russians are becoming the most influential group of Europeans - they are everywhere and their arrogance is growing.

Yeah - I'm sure it's just part of the natural evolution of geopolitics that they interfered in the EU referendum, and are funding the Tory party; nothing to see here...

Same as hard left organisations such as Momentum and the Trade Unions funding the Labour party - nothing to see here...

What do you make of the new Brexit-con party.
There appears to be a whole load of horse trading going on behind the scenes.

What do you think Farage will be doing after the election, maybe he'll end up replacing Trumps hand, which appears to be firmly up Johnsons rear end.

There may well be a hung Parliament but perhaps not with the parties numbers being as they are now.

To keep Brexit alive Johnson has to win an overall majority which does seem a difficult task at present. It is the common view that the Tories will lose seats in Scotland, London and SE plus west of Bristol. If that happens Johnson will have to win a considerable number of seats. With the Brexit Party splitting the Leave vote that could be making it even more difficult than it would be.

If the Tories don't get an overall majority and the opposition parties have the numbers over them then Brexit is dead.

All good points - I wouldn't like to see CT increase I would like to see it decrease - I would support an increase in employers NI if I thought it was going into the NHS to increase training and not simply to increase the wages of the existing staff - which is what happened the last time NI was increased to support the NHS. Given workers are having to pay 3% into auto enrolment which will rise to 5% how much can we expect people to contribute?

you could well be right - Boris is going down the road that May went down he seems detached from the normal voter. He is lucky he has a personality something May didn't and Corbyn is a known entity and he lacks credibility - their spending plans are madness as is their Brexit policy.