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International Chairman | 14522 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="JerryChicken" ...- this poster is going to haunt him for the rest of his political career.'"
It damn well ought to and I hope it does (for both of the promises contained therein, one of which he lied about and the other of which he hasn't delivered) but, unfortunately, I'm not so sure it will.
Remember Saatchi and Saatchi's poster of "Labour's not working" showing a huge dole queue snaking away into the distance? ... Thatcher's policies had a pre-known effect of increasing unemployment and, before her first term was up, at least three times as many people were on the dole ... it never bothered her though.
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International Chairman | 14522 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Dead Man Walking"That man is scum.'"
Oh, that's unfair.
Unfair on scum, that is.
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Club Owner | 2874 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"What is being proposed here is nothing like the French healthcare system'"
There are lots of similarities in the general principle. In France, a lot of the healthcare delivery is not state controlled - there is effectively a free market for patients to see whichever doctor they want. The government administers the central pot of money via the 'national insurance' schemes and the patient gets a bill from the healthcare service provider which is then reimbursed at various % levels depending on your financial status (e.g. some get 100% reimbursement, others get as low as 50%). France does not have a 'NHS' but it has a state administered healthcare system which is delivered to a large extent by private 'contractors'. So to say it is nothing like the French system is completely wrong - I agree that it is not a carbon copy but the fundamentals are pretty similar.
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International Chairman | 18802 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Oh, that's unfair.
Unfair on scum, that is.'"
Sorry to scum.
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International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote ="JerryChicken"Simply type "NHS Budget Cuts" into a search engine and you're overwhelmed with evidence, most of which is denied by Ministers, as in this article which randomly came at the top of the list when I ran the search [urlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2232158/NHS-axe-60-000-staff-budget-cuts-warns-union.html[/url
You might also refer to the thread I started a few days ago on the Leeds Childrens Heart Surgery case which is seeking to close two regional heart units this year, and its not because they don't need them anymore...'"
Leeds heart stuff you are putting a spin on it which suggests it is being done for financial and not clinical reason - there is no evidence to suggest the former is the case. I am against closing Leeds but the logic of having larger specialist units stands up to scrutiny.
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International Chairman | 26578 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="samwire"just google uk election 2010. then look at the breakdown of votes.'"
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Player Coach | 1978 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote ="Kosh"Well for a start, you're using the total votes cast for the three main parties as an indicator of the support enjoyed by the two parties forming this coalition government. Granted that could be a numeracy issue rather than a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy.
Then you've quoted a few snippets from individual party manifestos and conflated these with the policies of a coalition government.
You've also failed to notice significant differences between the manifesto statements and the policies actually implemented.
Lastly you've made the rookie assumption that people who vote for a particular party support every single item in their manifesto. And ignored the fact that in our particular version of democracy you vote for an MP rather than a party and this can have a significant effect on party support.
That's just off the top of my head.'"
You said 'nobody' voted for these policies. Source?
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| Quote ="Ajw71"You said 'nobody' voted for these policies. Source?'"
People here have tried explaining how polls work several times, is there any point doing so again?
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International Board Member | 335 | No Team Selected |
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Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
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| Quote ="Kosh"Well for a start, you're using the total votes cast for the three main parties as an indicator of the support enjoyed by the two parties forming this coalition government. Granted that could be a numeracy issue rather than a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy.'"
no, i'm not.
Quote Then you've quoted a few snippets from individual party manifestos and conflated these with the policies of a coalition government.'" the quote below is from the coalition agreement. so, we've got the 3 main parties manifestos promising more nhs privatisation and even the coalition agreement promising the same.
Quote We will strengthen the power of GPs as patients’ expert guides through the health system by enabling them to commission care on their behalf. We will give every patient the power to choose any healthcare provider that meets NHS standards, within NHS prices. This includes independent, voluntary and community sector providers'"
Quote You've also failed to notice significant differences between the manifesto statements and the policies actually implemented.'" manifesto pledge, more nhs privatisation, policy implemented more nhs privatisation. perhaps you can point out these significant differences.
Quote Lastly you've made the rookie assumption that people who vote for a particular party support every single item in their manifesto. And ignored the fact that in our particular version of democracy you vote for an MP rather than a party and this can have a significant effect on party support.'" oh no, that's ludicrous, for that to happen people would actually have to read each parties manifesto, then they'd find out things like, oh i don't know, that the party they hate with a vengeance because it is hell bent on more privatisation of the nhs whereas the party they love and who they'll give their vote to is also hell bent on more privatisation of the nhs.
now, all the people up in arms could have voted for the "no nhs privatisation" party or similar, and in that instance they should applauded for having the guts to stand up for what they believe in. but i suspect that the majority who are bleating voted for a party that promised more privatisation. which is odd, as they've got exactly what they wanted.
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International Board Member | 335 | No Team Selected |
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Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
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| Quote ="Big Graeme"icon_lol.gif'"
i know. it was that easy.
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International Star | 3605 | No Team Selected |
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Jul 2012 | 13 years | |
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| Quote ="samwire" we've got the 3 main parties manifestos promising more nhs privatisation
more nhs privatisation,
policy implemented more nhs privatisation.
more privatisation of the nhs
more privatisation of the nhs.
more privatisation. which is odd, as they've got exactly what they wanted.'"
Are you still labouring under the belief that an NHS Foundation Trust is a private company providing NHS services ?
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International Board Member | 335 | No Team Selected |
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Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
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| Quote ="JerryChicken"Are you still labouring under the belief that an NHS Foundation Trust is a private company providing NHS services ?'"
i was never labouring under anything.
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International Chairman | 26578 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="samwire"i know. it was that easy.'"
I prefer the word simple...
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Moderator | 36786 | No Team Selected |
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Jul 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Quote ="samwire"*some guff completely missing the point*'"
I give up. Your fundamental misunderstanding of the democratic process is beyond my ability to fix.
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| Quote ="Kosh"I give up. Your fundamental misunderstanding of the democratic process is beyond my ability to fix.'"
if this was about the democratic process, you may have a point. but it's not.
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| [url=http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/11/22-treatments-are-no-longer-free-on-nhs.html22 conditions no longer treated on the NHS[/url
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| Quote ="samwire"i was never labouring under anything.'"
Thanks for the confirmation.
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| [url=http://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2013/05/09/edward-davies-patient-charges-would-fundamentally-undermine-the-nhs/A British doctor's view of patient charging[/url
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International Star | 3605 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"[url=http://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2013/05/09/edward-davies-patient-charges-would-fundamentally-undermine-the-nhs/A British doctor's view of patient charging[/url'"
Having done something similar with a child in Spain and had to pay just the insurance excess for that visit I can concur that private medical A&E treatment is extortionate and we won't understand that fact until we've given the politicians permission to remove the NHS facility from us.
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| Quote ="cod'ead"[url=http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/11/22-treatments-are-no-longer-free-on-nhs.html22 conditions no longer treated on the NHS[/url'"
What about all the new advances that are being treated as routine within the NHS? or didn't that suit your rant?
There are far more new stuff going on than procedures being halted - the article is very misleading and - not surprisingly - sensationalist!!
Some balance please?
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"What about all the new advances that are being treated as routine within the NHS? or didn't that suit your rant?
There are far more new stuff going on than procedures being halted - the article is very misleading and - not surprisingly - sensationalist!!
Some balance please?'"
In the interests of balance, how would you explain to elderly people that their cataract cannot be dealt with by the NHS?
And if you want an alternative argument, then make it.
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Quote ="cod'ead"[url=http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/11/22-treatments-are-no-longer-free-on-nhs.html22 conditions no longer treated on the NHS[/url'"
But you can get a boob job, thus allowing you to coin it as a lap dancer, 'glamour' model or, er, an 'escort' (prostitute):
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03 ... 69352.html
This could be good business practice. Assuming that she declares her cash earnings and pays tax on them (which I imagine most people who work in the 'adult encounter' industry don't), the public purse could actually make money out of this girl.
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Quote ="cod'ead"[url=http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/11/22-treatments-are-no-longer-free-on-nhs.html22 conditions no longer treated on the NHS[/url'"
But you can get a boob job, thus allowing you to coin it as a lap dancer, 'glamour' model or, er, an 'escort' (prostitute):
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03 ... 69352.html
This could be good business practice. Assuming that she declares her cash earnings and pays tax on them (which I imagine most people who work in the 'adult encounter' industry don't), the public purse could actually make money out of this girl.
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Quote ="The Video Ref"But you can get a boob job, thus allowing you to coin it as a lap dancer, 'glamour' model or, er, an 'escort' (prostitute):
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03 ... 69352.html
This could be good business practice. Assuming that she declares her cash earnings and pays tax on them (which I imagine most people who work in the 'adult encounter' industry don't), the public purse could actually make money out of this girl.'"
Are you and Sal now collaborating on your straw men?
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Quote ="The Video Ref"But you can get a boob job, thus allowing you to coin it as a lap dancer, 'glamour' model or, er, an 'escort' (prostitute):
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03 ... 69352.html
This could be good business practice. Assuming that she declares her cash earnings and pays tax on them (which I imagine most people who work in the 'adult encounter' industry don't), the public purse could actually make money out of this girl.'"
Are you and Sal now collaborating on your straw men?
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| A&E waiting times up now. One million extra presenting themselves to A&E over the last year
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/09/ae-services-have-deteriorated_n_3246904.html?utm_hp_ref=ukLINK[/url
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| Quote ="cod'ead"A&E waiting times up now. One million extra presenting themselves to A&E over the last year
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/09/ae-services-have-deteriorated_n_3246904.html?utm_hp_ref=ukLINK[/url'"
Its also the least likely sector of the NHS to be privatised, hence the least likely to have public money thrown at it to "spruce it up" for a sale and so the taxpayer will end up running the unpredictable, heavy on overhead services while the private corporations lap up the cream (see BUPA for business model).
If that Cameron poster doesn't make a re-appearance at the next election then Labour aren't even worth thinking about.
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