It only takes one one EU country’s leader to veto the request, so either Johnson has or can get an agreement of this type or not.

I think EU representatives would be wise to signal that any delay depends on MPs voting [ufor[/u something, anything very, very soon. The prevarication now is stunning.



It is ridiculous that parliament has made Johnson a puppet rather than putting in a caretaker prime minister, and the blame for that lies mostly with Corbyn imo. ‘Coercion’ is pushing it though, the lad could have resigned.

I’ve knocked the Brexit coalition for being a mixed bad of competing priorities. But I don’t hold out a great deal of hope for much productive coming from one now including the Labour, the Lib Dems, the DUP et al. either.

I would never criticise anybody for distrusting Boris Johnson. However, he can be expected to pursue his own political self-interest, libidinous misjudgements aside. This deal is potentially a first garland of his premiership, so no deal is now just leverage - or it was. And the ERG don’t have the numbers to play that trick, even if they wanted to - I wouldn’t put it past them but they probably don’t.

As long as there is no agreed alternative to implementing the Conservative Government’s deal with the EU, there’s no justification for blocking it, and the moment is passing right now. Yes, many people of think it is poop for numerous and disparate reasons. But the Remain/Brexit sceptic position is now utterly incoherent, whereas Johnson has given the Brexiteers one that is, despite its inevitable faults and limitations, at least clear and easily understood.

The reason why the deal wasnt voted through yesterday is that MPs dont trust Johnson. He tells lies. The deal as tabled could have led to a no deal brexit and as parliament is there to represent all of the people not just the 52%, such an extreme version of brexit needs to be eliminated.

How can the EU ever negotiate with us with any degree of confidence that the UK parliament would actually pass anything? The Labour concerns about Labour laws and environmental is just a smokescreen for trying to embarrass Johnson. Marr stopped Vine asking the question today - please show us Jeremy one worker right that has been directly impacted by this deal? Show us one environmental policy that has negatively been impacted by this deal? Does Corbyn really think the Tories can win an election on the back of reducing existing workers rights - really?

The idea that we could force our PM to cow down to the EU is frankly abhorrent - which side are these MPs on? The fact that 6 MPs went to Brussels last week to ask them to not negotiate with Johnson would be treason in the old days and IIRC still carries the death penalty?

Labour have been asking for a GE for since 2017, they get the opportunity but decline because "we don't want no deal" - so today not deal is going to be taken off the table so logic says Labour will table a motion of no confidence - not according to Starmer on Marr - bunch of yellow-belly hypocrites. Labour will get obliterated in GE with Corbyn as leader they know it.

Europeans are not the enemy, they are our trading partners.
People who want the best for the country but have opposing views to you are not traitors.
People who set out their own red lines should not be shot for treason.


I wonder what caused you to have this genuinely disturbing mentality and how deeply rooted it is amongst your fellow Brexiteers. Most grown adults don't talk and think like this.

You talk about treason but were happy for the Prime Minister , along with Farage to blatantly lie to all of us.
Which people actually conned the country ?

The "easy" free trade agreement and leaving the EU, currently involves throwing N. Ireland under a political bus.
ALL of the promises made were without any knowledge or idea of how they would be implemented and the Prime Minister seems happy to play fast and loose with the law.
It's a great example and seems to be in contempt of the law, although it's probably just about legal.

Remember the "control" that Boris and Farage wanted was to have the UK Parliament and judiciary as the lawmakers of the land but, it does seem that, he's not too happy with either.

IF Boris (or May before him) had been able to achieve half the deal that "vote Leave" promised, Brexit would have sailed through the Commons.
However, it was always impossible to deliver what was promised and still is.

It's going to be another interesting week in Westminster, although, I actually expect that the deal will go through later in the week.

Most normal people think it and a lot of supposed experts and well regarded journalists are suggesting the same - it is you who is so pro-remain that your views are so clouded you cannot see through your mental fog.

I am not saying the issue is the EU - they have negotiated in good faith - how do we repay that good faith parliament basically trashes all their effort - how can they ever trust the UK parliament?

When you have people who deliberately work against the country what would you call them - oh yes suffragetes

Its all about personal heart!! You would applaud our own people who work for the other side e.g. Blunt, Burgess etc. Blair is no different to me - but he is top of your list!!

I'm worried that I have to share a stadium every week with someone who is so unhinged TBH.
But, for the billionth time, voting against a Tory Brexit bill with none of the red lines that a Labour Brexit bill would have included does not make a Labour MP a traitor. This sort of incendiary language will end in more tragedy, as if we haven't seen enough of that from far right lunatics.

Spot on.

And yet, one of the people who voted against Mrs May and helped her from office was...………...Boris Johnson
Treachery or self interest ??

Fecking hypocrites all of them

That's if you're dim-witted enough to claim Brexit is nothing more than a Tory bill. Or doing your best to absolve Labour of any responsibility in this sorry affair.

Yes, Cameron called the referendum, but [ifor the billionth time[/i, alongside the Tories, Labour voted for the referendum (a massive result of 544 vs 53). Time after time they swore to 'respect and honour' the result. They voted for Article 50. They campaigned on a leave manifesto. It's as much a result of Labour policy as it is anyone else.

Oh, and let's not forget that around 150 Labour MPs represent Leave constituencies. The bullshttery coming out of their mouths these days is simply embarrassing.

Now, I wouldn't dream of saying anyone doing all of the above for almost 4 years and then changing their minds to: reverse Brexit/2nd referendum/damage the Tories, is a traitor. But they can hardly be considered honourable or trustworthy. If you're surprised people (including millions of Labour voters) are furious, you probably shouldn't be trying to debate the issue.

I can tell you the anger towards MPs such as Nandy and Platt around Wigan/Leigh is palpable.

Actually nah...feck the duplicitous lying turncoats, string 'em up from the Tower.

Oh god move on. Show me a political campaign without exaggerations, half-truths and bold promises and I'll show you a rainbow unicorn dancing the macarena smoking a haddock.

Both sides did all of the above. Leave won and remainers can't handle it, which is why they repeat every you just did (and the red bus) as though it means anything. My eyes automatically glaze over whenever anyone uses this argument.


I think it depends on whether the EU grants an extension. My feeling is that Boris has a few EU leaders onside to veto the 'Parliament letter' in which case it comes down to this deal or no deal. If not we're in for months of more bullshttery.

Of course you are right about both sides exaggerating, to a point. However, what is absolutely beyond argument is that the "deal" that we are likely to end up with bears bares absolutely no resemblance to anything that was promised by "vote leave".
Ireland has been thrown under the political bus and are now seen as a "price worth paying" and this is before we begin to agree the nuts and bolts of our future and still, even after all this time, the majority of the general public, despite crying "lets just get on with it", dont have a clue what is actually going on.
Maybe they dont need to and should juts follow quietly and just accept their fete.

I do agree however, that a further referendum will merely keep the merry go round spinning.
Even if the question on the ballot paper as Boris' deal v Remain, following he result, there would be more questions than answers.

Equally, apart from ridding ourselves of some of the EU's influence, nobody has yet painted anything like a decent vision of the future and this is THE most depressing aspect of all. A small number of very wealthy politicians, inflicting further financial misery on the masses and after 10+ years of austerity, we've had a belly full of that already.

The country voted to leave - guarantee you would be shouting if the result had been reversed and the powers that be had tried to get us out.

The deal allows for us to make our own laws, secure trade deals etc. Stops being dictated to by a EU superstate. I thought every country had a veto seems Cameron tried to use his veto and the EU simply ignored him. Is this really who you would like to be closely aligned to?

Once again you are suggesting that leave voters are simply that stupid they were unable to think through the options - yet remainers could - its crass.

There is one absolute certainty.
I would rather be aligned to Europe, then jumping to Trump's tune.
The bloke is a dictator in "democrat" clothing and once out of the EU, we will need some friends with influence and we have a choice of one


As for either remainers or leavers knowing what they were voting for.
Everyone voted for what the "wanted" but NOBODY knew what we were going to get.
As for remainers knowing what they wanted, well, yes, they were happy to continue as we were, instead of gambling on all of our futures :



I'm fairly sure that Trump will agree a trade deal with the UK but, do you think this will be to the benefit of the UK (or what's left of it) or, more in favour of the USA.

We are finally getting a glimpse of some of the "drivers" around the referendum and the future prosperity of the "average UK resident" still looks worse than where we are and have been.

There is an obsession with Trump - there is no guarantee he will be in power after 2020 - he is not a dictator - far from it.

The markets we want are the emerging ones China, India both dwarf the EU in terms of opportunity.

Plenty of senior remainers told everyone we would be trading on WTO terms that included Cameron and Osbourne so its unfair to say we weren't warned and this deal is better than WTO as it stands.

Everyone knew we would be worse off in the short term it was a price to be paid for more control and not giving the EU net £9bn a year and investing that money in our own infrastructure.

Would you please define who these individuals are who the Daily Mail tells you we are being dictated by are? It's xenophobic nonsense.

yawn, do you ever have an actual point?

New trains for the North, maybe? I won't hold my breath.

[urlhttps://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/northern-rail-confirms-future-plans-for-pacer-relics-as-just-one-in-two-trains-now-run-on-time-in-2019-low-1-10059423[/url

Not that you would be able to comprehend.

Trains, & Northern in particular, are Sal's specialist subject.

Maybe I am wrong but are Northern not waiting for the promised electrification of the lines as promised before the introduction of new trains - makes perfect sense to me?

The very same people that the Guardian tell you - I don't read the Mail prefer the Telegraph at least every word is not restricted to four letters.

Stevie Wonder can see where the EU is heading - the organisation is run by two unelected bodies: the Council and the Commission. The MEPs are a waste of space and money - 99% of people will not know who their MEP is. What do you actually think the goals of the big wigs in Brussels are?

If we "save" £9 billion a year in not having to hand this over to the EU every year, we should all be better off ??
Or, are you actually agreeing with those of us, who have been telling you for 2 1/2 years that, despite the apparent saving, we will still be worse off.

I'd love someone to define how long the "short term" actually is



It's actually a more binary issue better off or worse off and even you are now confirming that we will be worse off., post Brexit and for what ??

You are ignoring the questions. you just repeat tired, xenophobic cliches. WHo are the Brussels bigwigs you refer to?

No. Nothing to do with it. Read the link.

[iNorthern blame industry-wide manufacturing problems for delays introducing new trains.

The firm’s promise comes after its punctuality record reached a new low for 2019 – just 53.5 per cent of trains now operate on time – as exasperated political leaders demand urgent action.

From Monday, October 21, we will have 29 of our 101 new trains in service for customers and a further 27 new trains are in final testing or being used for driver training.[/i

My 40 years old Pacer train was late picking up this morning, & lost another 10 minutes on its 25 minute journey in to Leeds. I blame the Brussels bigwigs.