I thought it was immigration?

You're assuming nationalist terrorists are all solely motivated by money.

I recall there was a bit more to it and it goes back 400+ years.

I think it the view that one of the biggest/wealthiest nations on the planet is incapable of prospering outside of the EU. Plenty of big nations mange to survive without tugging Donald Tusk's forelock so why can't we?

My view is bad deal will be done but we will survive and prosper without the need to prop up some of the basket cases in the EU

Well, we have some agreement in that, like you, I think we will get a deal that nobody wants (a bad deal) and there is no doubt that we will survive whether we are in the EU or outside.
The key is our relative prosperity and whether we will be better off in or out.

Many of the leave brigade acknowledge that we will be worse off in the short term and suggest that this "is a price worth paying" and in 5 or 10 years time, nobody will know whether things would have been better had we stayed within the EU, although we will be able to measure the "growth" in the UK compared with our neighbours and other members of the G20.

Since the leave vote, we have dropped back a little and if we are to take a "hit" we will drop back even further.

As for hanging on to anything Trump related, wow.

You'd rather attach yourself to one of the worlds most unpredictable leaders than stay within the EU, interesting.

I would rather attach myself to an economy that has proved itself to be the most powerful and robust over a long period of time in the world - its current leader maybe erratic but he has precised over significant growth since he started his tenure. He will not be there long term

He is also not afraid of fight which I think is a very positive thing - I think if we had been more aggressive with the EU we would have had a deal by now. If we had been represented by people from the business community and not civil servants we would not be in the mess we are in now.

I have said it before plenty of economies smaller than ours have managed to prosper outside of the EU and that includes dealing successfully with the tariffs imposed by the EU.

We need to take a long term view of life outside of the EU not what might happen in the first two years

They idea that the economy will simply evaporate, we will all starve and we wont be able to get medicine is project fear - it simply will not happen. Most on remain side with a modicum of intelligence will accept that. Plenty of product from outside of the EU flows without delay through/into the EU

It is like the Irish border - out and out war isn't going to happen if a border is reinstated - the troubles in the 70s were a distant memory when the GFA was signed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing

Wiki - like RL fans hardly a source of accurate unbiased information

I'm not sure whether you understand what a trade deal is ?
We wouldn't be attaching ourselves to the US ecconomy, just arranging an agreement for two countries to trade with each other and we would haveto negotiate this dealt with mine and your favourite politician, Mr Trump.
With the quality of negotiations managed so far with the EU, who do you think would get the most out of any deal with the US, it certainly wouldn't be the UK.

Of course countries have prospered outside the EU, however, its worth noting that 4 of the current G7 are part of the EU, so, maybe, it's not such a bad trading bloc to be part of ?

I fully agree regarding empty shelves and medical supplies etc.

IF there is a "no deal" there will very likely be some disruption to supplies of certain commodoties but, I do believe that we are resourceful enough to overcome this quite quickly. Although, you wouldnt want to be desperate for anything in the first few days after the balloon went up.

So another minister bites the dust, dear old JoJo has gone the same way as his brother, citing the Chequers deal will inflict untold damage to the nation.

At least he admits the promises from the "Leave" group were just pie in the sky & the country deserves a second vote on the whole debacle.

The cynic in me believes it's all part of the plan to inflict a "No Deal" on the country & the sadist in me actually hopes it comes to pass!

Firstly growth has continued as it was under Obama, although the deficit has skyrocketed due to Trumps tax cut for the rich. Trump repeats the KKK slogan, America First, why would he give us anything, the US are not going to replace the EU.

Trump isn’t afraid of a fight you say, if that’s the case could you explain why he dodged been drafted into the Vietnam War 5 times?

You mean Cadet Bonespur, who *would* theoretically run unarmed towards an active shooter, but won't go out in the rain to honour fallen US soldiers?

Indeed, Trump is a bully not a fighter. There is a huge difference in these two traits.

It all seems to be going smoothly doesn't it?

Prime minister is having a really good day.

Two down - more to go; there'll be a vote of no confidence by this time tomorrow.

If there's a vote of confidence in her and she loses who picks up the gauntlet? Plenty of Brexiters are happy to leave her in place to take the blame (Raab thinks she should stay!) but none want the responsibility themselves or know that they would be a lame duck just like May because the party is irrevocably split.

We're doomed.

What an awful mess.
Way back in Brexit (part 1) I said that NOBODY would get what they wanted from this and Mrs May has certainly made sure of that.
We either needed to go hard or stay in the customs union but, it trying to keep her party "together", we look like signing up to the worst of both worlds (still paying in, no say in policy and unable to make our own deals outside the EU), how much worse could it actually be.

Don't forget. Strong & stable.

Couple more resignations today - vote of no confidence before tea.

The only sensible course of action now is a GE - this lot are a busted flush.

I reckon some wets in the Tories will back her just to try and stay in office, they know they're in a pickle. I don't see any of the Brexiters actually wanting to be in charge yet, many would rather wait until after the end of March so someone else can be blame for the mess.

I reckon she'll survive a vote of no confidence but her deal will get thrown out by parliament. What she does then is anyone's guess.

She appears to be appealing to the whole house in order to get the numbers.

There'll be quite a few Labour M.P.'s wavering when it gets to the vote, should they toe the party line, or should they follow their constituents wishes, even if it's not exactly the Brexit they hoped for?

I felt a little sorry for her yesterday, not something I've felt for a Tory before, but to be fair she kept a straight bat amidst hours of bouncers, but I guess that's what politicians do best. If I could ask her one question & get a honest response it would be, what happens if you lose the vote?

I think the problem is that when negotiating the divorce you don’t want a very clear and firm position because it limits your room for manoeuvre. But that allows people to interpret ‘what was voted for’ in their own way, and what she came back was never going to match all or even many of those expectations. She’s gone beyond a joke now to almost being weirdly impressive - like that knight in the Monty Python film who wouldn’t give up despite losing all his limbs.

Interesting to see the Daily Mail’s new editorial line on the ‘preening Tory saboteurs’. I think they’re so defined by opposition that they’d be lost if they got what they wanted. Be funny to see to see their faces, if nothing else - although obviously we wouldn’t, they’d be off quick smart to pursue their other interests, like humming Dave before them.

May has the look of someone who is demob happy; she knows she's on her way out, so all the issues that would have beset her, are suddenly less significant and bothersome.

The deal will obviously be rejected by the HoP - and if she hasn't been ousted by then, she'll resign; then one of the Brexit cheerleaders will have to step up and try to salvage something - which will be a poison chalice of the worst kind.

The only light at the end of this tunnel, is that we could be witnessing the demise of the Tories as a political force for a generation.

I disagree with this.

May's biggest mistake was putting herself before any meaningful deal.
She needed to "pick a side" from the outset, even if this meant unrest within her party and possibly her own demise.

In trying to keep "everyone" on side for as long as possible, we look like ending up with either the worst of all deals or no deal.

Ultimately, with the Brexit issue being so toxic and not really along part lines, just as soon as she went for her "strong and stable" election and failed to obtain a significant majority, she was screwed.

As for Labour, the cowardly b'strds, they have just sat on the fence hoping for a Tory implosion, which in fairness, does look quuite likely but, they are equally split on this issue and the whole mess looks likely to continue for some while.

If we have a "peoples vote", the majority could be slightly in favour of remain but, what then ?
On the basis that the vote would still be close (even if it was a "remain" result), do we then go for best of three, best of 5, draw lots ???

Also, if we have "no deal", what happens to the Irish border, I presume that it would need to be a "hard" border. Quite ironic really and this could just about save Mrs May but, I doubt it.