Making us pay "in other ways" shouldn't be an option if "we" get things right.
Of course we should pay that which we are obliged to pay, although this seems far from straight forward and perhaps it's the politics of trying to please party over electorate, plus, the necessary brinkmanship required in any negotiation, which is preventing any kind of openness with the general public as to exactly what we are aiming for.
However, it really is time for the politicians of all parties, regardless of their leave/remain inclinations, to start and show how The UK intends to prosper outside of the EU.
There is nothing whatsoever being spoken publically about just how the UK will improve it's lot over the next 5/10/20 years.

Regarding the entertainment value in all this, of course you're right.
However, the side show created by splits within the 2 main political parties and the situation in both Scotland and even more so in Ireland, is certainly interesting and watching the imminent Tory implosion from the warring factions within their party IS entertaining.

Until we know what if any kind of deal we have it's difficult to plan anything and nobody outside the EU will negotiate until they know what kind of deal we have with the EU. We're barred from doing deals until we've left. So showing how we intend to prosper seems a bit pointless when we've no idea what the rules may be.

Sal, WTO rules puts us at a disadvantage with a lot of our competitors when doing business with the EU as even Canada has some sort of deal. WTO rules is "no deal" and should be avoided. I think both sides actually know that so I'd be amazed if it came to that.

I'm all for keeping our cards as close to our chest as possible.
However, for those leading the country to have some vision of life beyond Brexit and sharing some of those ideas with the world at large could/should strengthen our hand, not weaken it.

At the moment it's like waiting for the gas bill before going to do the weekly shop and it looks like it may be a fairly hefty bill.

If ever there was a time for leadership and vision it's now and we could begin life after Brexit on the front foot, instead of having to fear what the future may hold.

Certainly, our hopes of an attractive trade deal with the US looks like a poor option, especially with Trump's "America first" policy (although I think that is one of his better ideas).

There are plenty of sizeable markets that trade with EU from outside of the single market - there appears to be no reason why these countries can trade very successfully with the EU and we will not be able to do.

Without the financial services sector what have we got to offer anyone? Sure, we have a large market full of potential customers, but those customers are already over indebted, with falling levels of disposable income.
Basically, the only option we have that doesn't involve massive public investment is to become a tax haven, which we're well on our way to becoming.

On a more important note, talks have broken down over the DUP's opposition to Northern Ireland remaining in the single market in order to maintain a 'soft border'. What was that in the election about a 'coalition of chaos'?

That bribe May paid to the DUP is working out well isn't it?

Becoming a tax haven is I believe exactly what the hardline Brexiters want. Flat tax rate has been their thing for ages and will be the plan after "no deal". It'll mean far smaller state so public services will end as we know them now. Unless you're already very wealthy your standard of living will plummet. People like Redwood are already advising investors to pull out. They'll be advising them to buy back in when it's cheaper to do so and so called "red tape" is removed. We'll become the country equivalent of Kensington and Chelsea.

Things just seem to get ever more shambolic. What a total and utter dogs breakfast the government are making of this.

No impact assessments. Absolutely laughable. No idea of what their preferred end result is either. Just making it up as they go along.

We need to leave the customs union, so this bunch of incompetents can start negotiating with the likes of the US and China.

Little wonder Trump says he’s keen to get started.

God help us.

There was no plan for Brexit before the referendum and IF there is a plan now, on what basis have they drawn up the plan.
Many people didn't want Brussells controlling the UK, which was understandable. However, our current government let by the dithering Mrs May are a fecking disgrace and with their majority so fragile, they can be held to ransom by any of the warring factions within the Tory party.
It's quite bizarre that the DUP dont want any different treatment from the rest of the UK and yet, their tiny part of the Kingdom has a direct border with The EU.

If someone had scripted the current goings on pre the vote, everyone would have laughed and yet here we are.
Deal or no deal ? where is Noel Edmunds when you need him

The Government have no idea what they want since their preferred end result hasn't been discussed at Cabinet according to the Chancellor. This is because they're split and the leader is unable to control her party.

How can you go into a negotiation without any clear aim and objectives? They've done no impact assessment of various types of Brexit on the economy because they can't agree on what type of Brexit they want. There's no risk assessment or impact analysis at all. It's back of a fag packet stuff making it up as they go along. I'm staggered at the level of incompetence. Why the heck did they trigger A50 and start the clock ticking with all this uncertainty? Madness.

The government writes a risk register every year for all the hazards and threats that may affect the country. This looks at likelihood and impact information and is used to inform policy. This is the accepted way of dealing with risk. It seems crackers that the biggest risk to the country's economy is being done as a "judgement call".

Labour seem no clearer. Meanwhile the NHS is spiralling out of control and people are suffering horrendous poverty thanks to the imposition of universal credit but you'd hardly know because Brexit is taking up all the time and resource. What a colossal waste of time it is.

Fab. We have just given the EU 39b and for what? I love this Tory government. “We have no money”
But we can give 39b to the eu and tens of billions to Israel and Saudi Arabia to murder Muslims. The sooner corbyn gets in the better. To those that say socialism doesn’t work, we have been under socialist control since day 1, after all, where do you think your tax pounds go?

Regards

King James

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42329118By the time March 2019 comes around people will realise leaving the EU is a ridiculous idea![/url

I don't think people realise how difficult it will be to trade with the EU if we have a hard Brexit. To be accepted, many goods require CE marking and this in turn involves a significant amount of paperwork. Simple enough if your exporting hundreds of widgets but not cost effective if youre only exporting a few items.

I don't think a fair proportion of Brexiters care, let's just rejoice we're getting our blue passports back!

I don't know how many importers are getting by with the £ 10% down, I reckon they must be just hoping for better times ahead, but I don't really think the EU will let us have a good deal, or an average deal, but a bad deal really would be better than no deal no matter what May and Davis etc say.

To date, the "negotiations" appear to be extremely one sided, with the EU making demands of the UK and eventually, after appearing reluctant, the UK are agreeing to their (the EU's) wishes.
It would be great to hear our (the UK's) demands and to know just how close we ware to achieving anything.

I know that our main issue will probably be a post Brexit trade deal and this part of the "negotiation" is only just starting. Plus, a "soft" border in Ireland, which is still massively intriguing) but, the general public, have never actually been told what we (the UK) are aiming for.
Of course, the Brexit side said that there would be no payout and a free trade deal so, lets just hope we get the latter.
We still await ANY of the Brexit mob actually telling us that anyone in the UK will be better off after Brexit, although, there are still plenty of crossed fingers, so, everything should be just fine.

At least our NHS has been running smoothly this winter after the huge cash injection promised by the [ileavers[/i........

Yeah, but, commemorative postage stamps...

We haven't left yet.

Don’t blame racist and xenophobic brexiteers. Blame the Tory party. I live in a 20k population town and in a 7 mile radius the tories have closed 5 hospitals in the past 4 years so no wonder A&Es are at breaking point. The same people who voted Tory (so 99% of the sin bin) will be the at the top of queue to complain about the NHS. (Pro tip - if you voted Tory you have no right to complain)

Regards

King James

Not often I agree with LJ, but he is bang on

Absolutely correct - the NHS is being systematically defunded, in preparation for privatisation; soon it will be in the hands of Branson and various other private providers, shortly thereafter to be funded by insurance, US style.

Meanwhile, the woman hotly tipped to become the new Health Secretary - Ann Milton - appears to have all the right qualifications; but would you adam and eve it, her husband just happens to be a Director of Virgin Care, who are hoovering up great swathes of the NHS, and suing when they don't get their way...

Talk about all having their snouts in the same trough.
Grabbing self serving b'stards, or corporate puppets, the lot of them and many of the Labour & SNP mob fall into the same category.

Just about managing (to breathe) should be the Tory mantra and they will probably start charging for fresh air at some point.

During a discussion I had in which the group was evenly split 50/50 with those who voted leave and those who voted remain, we only had one outstanding question... At what point will the riots start?

My daughter had a major operation before xmas. The skill & dedication of the staff is humbling, but the delays in responding to the unplanned & being asked to vacate her bed for the next patient & wait in the family room for medication was shocking. I have no doubt now that it is a sinister, ideologically driven, deliberate policy of destroying all public services so they can be handed to their friends.

All major parties should shoulder the blame for the state of the nhs. Unless things change dramatically the nhs will stagger on steadily decreasing in efficiency. If we increased the funding on a massive scale it’s highly unlikely things would change.
Mainly because the nhs is dogged by restrictive practices. Which the Labour Party are more than happy to accommodate. If you recall giving the general practitioners a massive pay rise and agreeing to the scrapping of Saturday working. It’s no wonder casualty departments are packed at weekends. The labour parties criticism of the tories conveniently forgets the scandal of the Mid Staffordshire hospital Scandal, patients dying from lack of care, nurses falsifying records etc etc.
To make matters worse due to an influx of people from Europe we have seen a huge increase in patient numbers. None of these have payed much into the system but are receiving the full benefits.