Don't get me started on them, riding 3 side by side "because it's Sunday and this is a quiet road", and why the hell they are allowed to use by-passes for time trials is quite beyond me, maybe I should try riding a horse down a by-pass and see what plod has to say about that.

Those cyclists - they're no better than the nazis.

some of them are fine, similarly motorcyclists, but some are complete morons.

I'd pay attention to Mike O'Day's epitaph if I were you.

You don't live in Chester by any chance do you? I was setting off somewhere the other day in very dull conditions and an obviously servious cyclist in equally dull clothing was coming along the street. I had to do a double take to register him coming along. Making it hard for yourself to be seen in bad conditions is crazy.



That is really going to work here with our ambulance chasing legal culture. If you think people falsely claiming for whiplash after the merest tap of a contact between two cars has got out of hand imagine where we would be with the unscrupulous "cyclists" bouncing themselves off cars at every junction!

The car is king in this country and the attitude of many motorists reflects that; the spluttering outrage of some people when they're forced to alter their driving for a few seconds to avoid killing me is a sight to behold - it would be funny if it wan't scary.

I take the same approach as you to hi-viz by the way, coupled with an assertive road position - I refuse to ride in the gutter and very rarely use what are laughably described as 'cycle lanes,' both of which encourage drivers to overtake when it's not safe and promote the idea that I'm an inconvenience.

I'm sure your next of kin will mount a moving tribute to your principled stand at your funeral.

You misunderstand.

This has nothing to do with principles and everything to do with common sense; riding in the gutter or in a litter-strewn cycle lane is more dangerous than taking up a proper road position with all the other traffic.

Same with motorists.

define "proper road position"

... and you get a good cross-section of both "fine" and "moron" along the Albert Embankment between Lameth Bridge and Westminster Bridge any weekday morning during the rush hour.
It can be pretty intimidating for pedestrians along there.

Cyclists often mention that they were around before motorists ... well, folks, the pedestrian predates all of you.
Think Pedestrian.

Is that the one that used to be called Lambeth Bridge?

I wasn't referring to your road positioning - IIRC the recommended distance from the kerb is around 18" for the very reasons you state - but rather the attitude towards making yourself as visible as possible.

That's the one.
The Alert Emankment runs eneath it towards Westminster ridge.

I don't eschew hi-viz, I just don't go out lit up like a christmas tree; I wear cycling gear that has hi-viz strips and my bike has powerful lights that comply with the law. For what it's worth, I've never been in an accident or near-miss that hi-viz would have prevented but I have been in two, in broad daylight, that were caused by driver error.

My comments were more in agreement with the attitude that cyclists are seen as vulnerable and an inconvenience; it wouldn't do any harm to look at the number of us who are killed or injured every year and think about ways to educate drivers and improve attitudes, rather than simply defaulting to the position that responsibility for the welfare of cyclists is solely with them.

I had this discussion on another board recently and someone replied that cyclists deserve to be knocked off their bikes, because they are always jumping red lights; there's a long way to go!

If you are gormless enough to go through a red light, as I have observed many cyclists do, then you will inevitably suffer the consequences of your cretinous actions.

Plastic helmet versus a Leeds taxi driver, who as a breed appear to treat traffic lights as an inconvenience anyway, is not a fair contest!

or stop jumping lights, riding two abreast, and whilst you're at it, cycle at the speed limit.

Well argues - I am suitably chastened.

Fair enough - you comment agreeing with the OP made me think otherwise.

I don't disagree with much of that TBH, although there are a minority of cyclists that don't help themselves or the image of cyclists as a whole. While I drive as part of my job I like to walk as much as possible when at home. I've lost count of the number of times I've nearly been mowed down on a crossing by a cyclist who doesn't think that red lights apply to bikes.

Just to p1ss on two of your chips...

[iHighway Code rule 66
You should

* never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends
[/i

From[urlhttp://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069837[/url

and have you ever tried to cycle at the speed limit ?

I'll take your comment both ways, you either mean that cyclists are too slow - have you ever tried to ride at 30mph - or cyclists ride at more than the speed limit - have you ever tried to ride at 30mph ???

I managed 38mph once coming down the 2 mile long hill into Helmsley, very nearly, or maybe even did, shat myself.

Funnily enough Direct Line did a survey of motorists and found that 5+ MILLION ran red lights EVERY MONTH....go figure who are the greater pest on the roads regarding safety.
As for helmets, waste of time except for very small children as they are only tested for prevention of cuts and bruising at best and can increase chances of an accident and even cause worse injuries at worst.

I'll refer you to my post above re red lights and has been pointed out cyclists are allowed to ride two abreast (still much less than the width of any car at any rate) and as for the speed limit comment, bicycles don't have them as they aren't legally required to be fitted with a speedometer though you can be done for cycling 'furiously' as it was (now dangerously)
I'll remind you that motor vehicles in the UK kill around 1700-1800 people yearly though this figure is coming down seriously injured in the tens of thousands

what utter shoite

Its a point of view that is well supported in the cycling community, not by myself, but a sizeable percentage of cyclists won't wear them for exactly the reasons stated, I'm of the opinion that it won't cause me to have an accident and [imay[/i stop a fatal or debilitating head injury, so I wear one.

I think there is a difference between sneaking through a late orange/red light which I would imagine what most people are talking about, compared to the complete disregard of traffic lights by many cyclists! There will be a greater number of motorist in all statistics, because there is a greater number on the road. You will never truly know the complete statistics because there is no way of monitoring how many cyclists on the road.

Show us some proof that helmets cause worse injuries.

As for riding two abreast - this is just arrogance.

What do you think about the lack of training that cyclists (and mopeds for that matter) have for riding on the road?

I don't think anyone is claiming there is a definitive one-size-fits-all answer, but have a skeg here:
[urlhttp://www.cyclehelmets.org/1146.html[/url
there is a huge and very well documented and extremely well informed debate and research. It isn't a crank POV.


Or not. If I and the missus are out on a few hours bike ride - as was, back in the day - why TF should we not ride two abreast, so we can talk just like you might talk to your missus sat in the passenger seat of your barrow? What IS arrogant is for you to just assume that YOU have the right to that piece of tarmac and everyone should just get out of your way. Cycling two abreast in most cases (and certainly there are plenty of narrow roads where you wouldn't sensibly choose to do it) is a perfectly legitimate and reasonable thing to do.

The question is more whether, from time to time, on occasion, as circumstances demand, it might be prudent or polite to return to single file, which is a fair line of argument. But your statement of general principle is what is arrogant. if you think about it.

For adults, its not rocket science.