Which ironically, appears to be the mantra of the death cult that has grown out of the Brexit obsessives; in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they are determined that somehow, one day, we'll be... ok.

The sadness for me is that with May's slow demise, Labour are not seizing the opportunity to pledge to end the madness; Corbyn has changed his mind on other issues and could on this - but whilst politicians of all stripes know that it will be a disaster, none with a serious chance at power have the bottle to say so.

Just a point, leaving the EU doesn't mean leaving the customs union or single market. Norway is in both and isn't an EU member.

The "Norwegian model" was talked up by Farage and co during the referendum campaign. Now it seems it suddenly isn't Brexit enough for some - they kept that quiet before.

If we come out in 2019 with no deal the effect on the economy will be massive for decades to come. Trade agreements take a long time to negotiate, it's not a simple process and we've not got anyone with recent experience of making them.

And yet Mrs May looked right down a camera the other day and said it wasn't possible to be in the customs union without being a member of the EU.

Barnier said at the weekend that the British public hadn't been properly informed about the consequences of leaving the EU - that was an understatement of the highest order; it goes much further than being uninformed - we've been outright deceived.

I'm still of the opinion that another referendum needs to be held before we leave the EU.

The original referendum last year was an absolute farce from both campaigns, built on fear and lies. Surely, once we learn what the actuals facts are & what a post-Brexit UK will look like, we should vote on that, it's simply too important.

Of course, there are some who no matter what will vote Remain or Brexit, regardless of the costs, but over a year on from the vote and most of my friends/peers still don't know what a post-Brexit UK will look like (nor do they think the existing relationship with the EU is a perfect one). I reckon this is similar for a large proportion of the electorate.

Right now it does seem like a small proportion of Brexit extremists are getting their way, at the expense of everyone else. I call them extremists because they're happily pursuing their ideology, regardless of the cost to themselves & others.

I think much of the problem with the Brexit referendum was that it wasn't split across party lines and therefore there will be no accountability if things go pear shaped.
Even the Tories, who are now "trusted" to see this thing through are split more or less down the middle, which is why we had the referendum in the first place.

You're absolutely right that NO ONE knows what post Brexit UK will be like, how could they.
It still seems that even the optimist's have to keep their fingers crosses when talking about it and the most positive aspect is that we will move away from control by Brussels, which may be ok but, we actually dont know.

I voted to remain but having viewed the latest major breach of ecc laws by macron and merkel I am starting to change my mind. Macron has taken a French ship yard into government ownership to prevent a takeover by an Italian ship yard.
The ecc has propped up some bankrupt Italian banks. Then merkel having invited over million asylum seekers into Germany now wants to offfload some of them to eastern block states. Ecc laws quite clearly state asylum must be processed in the first country in which the asylum seeker arrives.

If you can't see from the EU's actions and words, post-Brexit vote that we are better out than in you have a problem. Their dictatorial arrogance is a glimpse of an horrific future if the EU continues as is. Barnier is just trying to circumvent politicians to get the population uneasy. What are these consequences? WTO tariffs - so what, we had them before and we have a trade deficit with the EU? Self-determination? Freedom? A Brexit 'bill' - when the treaty explicitly states there should be one?

Absolutely correct. The TV news outlets almost without fail are support anti-UK, pro-EU, pro-mass immigration agendas contrary to the result of the referendum.

Today we see a draft civil service proposal for immigration controls 'leaked' and the BBC and Channel 4 are all over it, despite this being PRECISELY what we voted for. The sooner we tighten controls the better - meanwhile millions from Eastern and Southern Europe (not to mention Africa and the Middle East) continue to flood into France, Germany, Belgium, Holland and parts of Scandinavia. Because that was always going to be the shambolic result of freedom of movement and only an utter idiot is unable to see that.

Barnier and his arrogant largely Germanic buddies running the EU really are in the sh*t. Even if they wanted to, they couldn't allow themselves to be seen to admit their experiment is a disaster. Similarly, almost all of my German colleagues hate Merkel for what she's done to their country (don't underestimate the terrible impact mass immigration is having) - yet they'll probably still vote for her. Classic German stubbornness.

So, what you would like to see is, pro Brexit reporting to justify the decision of the 51% of the people who bothered to vote to "leave".
That wont make it right, will it ?

There is no doubt that the "free movement" experiment has failed and this issue still needs dealing with, although, despite some of the current "posturing" we still dont know what the UK will actually agree to and it's worth remembering that "we" have sacrificed our own rights to free movement in the opposite direction, something taken for granted and given up all too easily. No more retiring to Spain or Cyprus, not to mention the fall in asset value for all those Brits who have properties in the EU.

It does appear that immigration will fall back dramatically and that we may lose some of the influence of the EU law makers, although, if we want to continue to supply our manufactured products into the EU, we will still need to produce goods that conform to their standards (slightly ironic).
However, despite some of the "it will be alright", there appears to be a growing consensus that we will all be slightly worse off on the outside, unless, of course, this is just more propaganda ?

I think you will find the British will still be welcomed with open arms in Europe, because a large sector of this population is retired people who spend money in the local economy. One of my pals has spent a large amount of cash building a house in France. I asked him how he found the locals, they like me was the reply,one of them commented that he makes his money in England and spends it in France.

How wide those open arms will be post March 2019 is the issue. We don't know yet. So far we seem to have made no progress on the matter.

Using your logic, you may have thought that we would welcome some of our European friends with open arms, as they have some medical skills that are severely lacking amongst our "own" population ??

What does your pal think will happen to his house post Brexit and can he be certain of spending time there if he wants to visit.

Dont you think it's strange that your pal is welcomed in France but if a French guy comes to England, he is less than welcome ?
Many would even say he would be unwelcome, along with any of his fellow Europeans ?

I am completely mystified by your logic, prior to us joining the ecc Britons traveled throughout Europe without any problems.
Each year I spend several weeks in the USA without any problems. I have met plenty of Brits who have villas in Florida and have no problems whatsoever. It's not true we don't welcome the French , London has a large French population. I note that several large British companies don't like brexit. This because it may dry up the influx of cheap labour, step forward Mike ashley and take a bow. If per chance we suffer a short fall of unskilled labour it may make the Mike Ashley's of this world pay decent wages. As for any high skilled professionals who are working here, simple just issue them with a five or ten year visa.
Or better still give them citizenship. My pal is working full time in England, his building work in France is ongoing. He employs a French builder and a French farmer to keep his land tidy. Are you seriously suggesting that these people will refuse to work for him.

Citizenship of an EU country is likely to guarantee more employment rights than British citizenship post brexit so I expect that there will be fewer prepared to go for it. I'd expect more visa applications. Also parity between Euro and Pound is likely to put the brakes on a lot of immigration too. I hope that free trade is sorted out since having cheaper exports will be nullified if trade barriers come up.

It all looks increasingly like no deal is on the cards, this seems foolhardy. Better to have a compromise to buy time to sort things out. The sheer complexity of leaving is incredible so why rush into anything?

Which ever side you prefer, remain or exit ,it's split the country and political parties down the middle. Probably take a generation for the political dust to settle on everything. As I have previously stated we haven't even started on the real negotiations yet. Political careers will be made and broken as this whole drama unfolds.

Absolutely right Backwoodsman.

Think negotiators need to be pragmatic (on both sides). Don't see why the extreme Brexiteers are wanting no deal when it could poison our relationship and bargaining position with the EU for years to come. Both sides are going to have to agree at some point. Think the ideology should be given a rest for a change or it'll do far more harm than good.

The split in opinions goes back to the original vote to join the "Common Market".
There were plenty of older voters who "never voted to go in" have certainly enjoyed their moment of redemption.
The situation in Ireland is by far the most intriguing part of the divorce and the hopes of a "free" border between North and South have been scoffed at this week, and if this issue cant be resolved, there will be trouble ahead for both the British and Irish governments.

If arguing over Brexit causes a revival in the Troubles it will be another nail in the Conservative coffin. Dogma will be their undoing.

Ireland is a particularly difficult conundrum to solve.
"Our" wishes to have an open border between the North and South just seem like a pipe dream and it would make the border towns extremely prosperous.
There was always a flow of goods on the black market over there to avoid taxes and to take advantage of cheap fuel (in the South) and with any kind of open border, there would be fleets of vehicles lined up, in both directions, to gain best advantage of any differentials inn trade/ tax or tariffs.
However andy forced "separation" could lead to some type of return to the troubles.

IF you could take away the politics and religion, a United Ireland would be the most obvious answer but, this would come at one hell of a cost and would need Westminster to hand over their power etc.

It will not happen, there isn't the appetite in the south to deal with thousands of heavily armed loyalists.

So.....................

We ain't gonna talk about Judy (sorry Brexit), I've had more important things to think about, but Judy probably means nothing to the majority of people reading this.

Why has it gone so quiet on here, has nothing happened recently?

I could list quite a few things, does no-one care?

The country's heading for choppy waters for sure, but one of my main concerns is, the imbeciles in power are arguing amongst themselves re: Brexit.

Yet more bad stuff keeps happening, has everyone lost their will for change?

Brexit won't happen - the Tories are making a total fudge of the whole exercise, lots of information about exactly what it will mean is finally starting to permeate past the firewall of the MSM, and public opinion is shifting; the Lords will kick it down the road for long enough that the fatally wounded Mrs May won't see it through, and we'll end up with a referendum on the actual deal - which will be rejected. Then we'll spend the next few years trying to repair our damaged reputation on the world stage, with JC as the PM - which he kind of is already, in all but name.

In the pub early this morning.

Apart from the Lib Dems and they dont really count in the grand scheme of things, the 2 main political parties are split within themselves and May, in particular, especially with here lack of majority, cant risk upsetting any of her party, leaving us all in limbo.
The EU27 are more than happy to play a long, waiting game, as they stand to lose significant income if/when we are out and the will just keep stonewalling the UK until it's too late to agree a deal.
The whole issue is damaging the economy (as it will within the EU) but, hey ho, that's politics

Wonder what the weather is like on “planet Bren2K”