great news for the french system then ?

now it can concentrate on looking after it's own maybe ,instead of helping cut the NHS waiting lists ?

I'd go with the latter tbh, for the very reason Minty said

"paying back favours for friends who have funded certain politicians for some years and just happen to be involved in the private medical sector, and who are licking their lips at the prospect of all that filthy lucre that's going to go into their pockets."

You missed off:

"Oiling the wheels for some very lucrative directorships in the private medical sector once their political careers are ended at the ballot box."

No, possibly the opposite actually.

If the reforms go through then under EU tendering rules any EU organisation will be able to bid for our sick and dying - if French hospitals are cheaper you could find more English being treated there than natives.

the french people would never agree to that - hope the uk tourists are ready for the channel port blockades etc ?

Well said sir!

Indeed.

So basically, masses of good, old-fashioned venality.

Pah! You're just envious.

This was IMO the most tasteless part of the propaganda campaign to argue for the Coalition's healthcare reforms. The argument was always "the UK is behind various European and outside countries for cancer survival rates - we HAVE to do something about the NHS, we can't go on like this, we owe it to cancer patients and their relatives". This is an emotive argument because most people have had some form of experience with cancer in their family.

What should have been done then is a concentrated drive on cancer treatment and looking at the countries that have been using more successful cancer treatments and seeing if we can get best practice from them. But instead its a wholesale reorganisation of the whole NHS, including large scale commissioning of services from private providers, that is opposed by doctors! What happened to the part about improving cancer care?

It is just using a completely irrelevant argument which IMO is tasteless.

Come on Lansley do the right thing and resign you muppet.

Sadly, I don't think it would change anything. The whole idea of 'reform' has come right from the top, and a different face as Health Secretary won't make a blind bit of difference.

It will however allow a 'get out clause', allowing a change of strategy, Lansley can't U turn without losing face, but another minister can. Cameron might have argued for it but he has also been successful in pinning individual policies to individual ministers, much more so than what went on under Blair and Brown when a lot of the Cabinet members were anonymous.

I'd like to think you were right, but I think Cameron has been too big a supporter of the proposals for a change of policy not to be considered [ihis[/i U-turn, no matter who the new minister is.

So do I.
He is on record as having taken note of Blair's regret at not getting enough of the unpleasant stuff out of the way early on in his tenure.
He probably thinks that the public will still think of voting Labour as a toxic choice at the next election so he can get away with unpopular actions by blaming "the clearing-up of Labour's mess" during this term of office.
Then, at the next election, he can ditch the LibDems and be able to point at some favourable economic stats after the US and Euro economies have picked up and begun to drag ours up with them.
Goodness knows how many unemployed we'll have but at least Lansley's mates will, by then, be happliy cherry-picking which NHS services they can make the most profit on supplying.

The NHS works just fine. Sure, there are inefficiencies. But this is a highly complex human system (IIRC, one of the largest public institutions in the world) interacting with a chaotic environment. Inefficiencies are inevitable.

The PROBLEM is it is being hammered by private capital (think of PFI), pharmaceutical companies and - worst of all - a highly uncompetitive system of patents and trade laws (which we signed up to) that make it impossible to buy alternative drugs at a fraction of the price.

Quote ="Mugwump"The NHS works just fine. Sure, there are inefficiencies. But this is a highly complex human system (IIRC, one of the largest public institutions in the world) interacting with a chaotic environment. Inefficiencies are inevitable. .'" i'm sure these measures will help a lot ? actually NHS patients have been treated in our area for many years so these articles are not new ideas www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... reece.html www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rance.html and this gem from 2002 news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1764823.stm that's one way to reduce NHS waiting lists I suppose ?

Quote ="Mugwump"The NHS works just fine. Sure, there are inefficiencies. But this is a highly complex human system (IIRC, one of the largest public institutions in the world) interacting with a chaotic environment. Inefficiencies are inevitable. .'" i'm sure these measures will help a lot ? actually NHS patients have been treated in our area for many years so these articles are not new ideas www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... reece.html www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rance.html and this gem from 2002 news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1764823.stm that's one way to reduce NHS waiting lists I suppose ?

[url=http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/03/05/watch-lansley-caught-running-from-doctors/Lansley visits the Royal Free Hospital and runs from protesting doctors[/url

And not long since his boss had to lock journalists into a room while he toured another hospital and was challenged by staff over the 'reforms' – staff who are now facing disciplinary action.

Rumour is that this pig's ear of a bill will receive Royal Assent on 20 March. I hope the LibDems are fooking proud of themselves for supporting this rag-bag piece of ideologically-driven, opportunistic legislation. I can't wait until that fat 2@ David Heath comes a-knocking, asking for my support in 2015, he'll be needing a surgical support from the swift kick in the knackers.

The government is so desperate to avoid it being debated again in the Commons that it is prepared to simply accept every ammendment the Lords wish to make.

That's all well & good but not so good when Liberal peers vote down their own amendments though.

I loved a tweet I got yesterday - "Shirley Williams will go down in history for wrecking two centre-left parties - how the Tories must love her!"

There are life-long Liberals and LibDems jumping ship on a wholesale basis at the moment, their support in the country is visibly withering on a daily basis. I wonder how many are confident that they'll still have a job (as an MP), come 2015?

[url=http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2012/03/tweet-to-jennywillot-functiondsidvar.htmlFor all those on twitter: Tweet LibDem MPs to save the NHS[/url

Done.

Looks like Quisling-in-Chief, Baroness Williams has managed to stymie a vote to condemn the bill at [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lib-dem-health-reforms-vote-bid-fails-7553841.htmlthe LibDem Conference[/url

[url=http://abetternhs.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/ldconf/Archie Andrews Clegg's letter to LibDems, hailing their triumphs in amendments to the Health Bill totally deconstructed[/url

It is not too late to let your feelings be known, be under absolutely no illusion, if this bill is voted onto the statute book, there will be no turning back. Even if a future government wanted to bring OUR NHS back under state control, the EU wouldn't allow it.

If you liove in a LibDem consituency, then please [url=http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2012/03/target-1-million-emails-in-24-hours-to.htmluse this facility to e-mail your MP and let him/her know your feelings.[/url

This is far too important to simply sit on our hands and do nothing. There is a very real danger that by handing GPs a commissioning budget that some will simply run out of money - THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REFER PATIENTS. Then the "management organisations" will become involved and they'll be creaming off a slice of the GP's budget before he ever gets a chance to order treatment.

So when all you that voted tory suddenly find that you or your loved ones cannot get the treatment they require, I hope you've got adequate private healthcare provision because you are certainly going to need .

So, Robinson, Standee and the rest of you that voted this shower into power. It's your fault.

I feel like starting a whole new thread on this but I don't want to risk the wrath of the mods