So this becomes a left wing echo chamber like every other social media platform?

At the time of the campaign, no one, not a single person, talked about years of pain to restore parity, medicine shortages, roaming charges, Irish borders or coulds or maybes - the electorate were sold a land of easiest trade deals in history, 350 million quid a week savings and free unicorns for everyone; bit by bit, as the truth has come out, the rhetoric has been slowly dialled down to try to intersect somewhere with the reality - to the point where now, we're talking about Brexit paying off in years, and the fact that we survived WW2 (although many people patently didn't) so we can survive this.

And still, very few people can articulate one single area of their lives that have been negatively impacted by EU membership - or one that will improve upon leaving. It's ing madness.

The remain campaign said the economy would collapse and we would need an emergency budget with a hike in tax rates if we voted to leave. Something you appear to have omitted from your post? Or are you suggesting that didn't happen?

People voted for three main things: Control of the borders, control of law making, not having to make to make financial contributions to the EU. All of these are definitely deliverable in a leave situation.

For me no deal could be detrimental short term, however long term the growth economies are not in Europe and could we do better deals with these countries outside of the EU that would benefit us more longer term.

In what ways are the EU making it so difficult? In what ways are they screwing us so hard?

By giving us a bad deal or nothing.

I've said before and I'll say again - there was lots of pointless rhetoric on both sides; that said, we're hardly in a great place economically are we, despite the spin; the value of the £ has tanked, GDP has risen slightly but that doesn't help inequality, and employment is up, but only because the govt fiddle the figures to exclude lots of people, and to include people who work 1 hour a week on a zero hour contract. Meanwhile, public services are slashed to the bone, the NHS, police, fire service and schools are virtually crippled, homelessness is up, and the number of children living in absolute poverty has risen.



Which laws negatively impacted you? What don't you like about immigration? How much of the EU contribution was wasted do you think?



See you're doing exactly what I described - we *could* do better deals; as an independent, largely irrelevant island that is no longer the gateway to the European market, you expect the growing Tiger economies to bend over for us? They may well offer trade deals - but they'll want favourable tarrifs, relaxation of standards and protections, and probably a load of visas. And it will take years to resolve, as these things do.

It's fantasy land.

This is ok but, necessarily, we are making it more difficult to trade with our closest and largest market, which is crazy.
Unless the promises of a free trade deal with the EU AND the ability to trade everywhere else with supremely beneficial trade deals, all of which will take multiple years to set up.
The picture sole by leave suggested zero down side and yet, our current government's new best buddies (the DUP) seem to have a significantly different view and the Irish Border certainly wasn't mentioned during the referendum campaign (by either side).
The deal with the EU has to give the UK less preferential terms (if only to prevent other countries from trying to leave) and we still come back to a fundamental situation thet, there isn't a hope in hell of the UK using preferential trading terms with say India/ China, to gain commercial benefit, to supply certain good back into the EU - It wont happen.

Also, from the debacle that we have all witnessed so far (the negotiations with the EU 27), do you really think that the UK will do better then the EU when negotiating with the "rest of the world" ? really ?

What is a bad deal? You have not stated one issue despite being pretty certain they are screwing us & giving us a bad deal.

Why would those countries give us a better deal than a deal with 27 other countries combined with a significantly bigger market? Is it cos we won the war?

But it is broadly in line with what other countries have, who are beyond all of May’s red lines. It’s what we (well, our PM) asked for. It isn’t remotely punitive, imo. I don’t think it is even an especially bad deal, under the circumstances - although obviously it can be seen as such by people who still want to remain, or who imagined our special, ambitious, bespoke deal would somehow give us something like the best of both worlds.

The thing about going off and seeing if you can do better by yourself, is that you can’t really blame the ones you’re leaving for not going out of their way to make your life easier.

The backstop for the border between NI and Ireland is a unique difficulty, but not one of the of the EU’s making.

I mean, really - what did you expect?

Please don't help this muppet answer the questions. He has made 2 clear statements that are fundamental to what the majority of the xenophobes believe but when questioned cannot provide a grain of evidence.

And so the merry go round starts again.

To say no deal is possibly going to be beneficial in the long term is like saying in 1911 that ocean liner passenger safety is going to improve after the Titanic.

Why not avoid the iceberg?

I've been involved in emergency planning and response for 13 years for the Police, Local Authorities, NHS, Red Cross and Central Government. I've dealt with incidents from terrorism to flooding to infectious disease outbreaks. Never have I come across a situation where something that will require a national Major Incident response for at least 6 months is allowed to happen when it could be averted. It's like witnessing a slow motion car crash where the drivers can stop it happening at any time but plough on regardless.

Allowing no deal will be political suicide for any government that allows it to occur. It's a shame that it will have to occur for people to see it.

Really? Capitalist greed caused the world's biggest financial disaster. The poor paid for it through austerity. The Tories got back in power. I am in no doubt that leaving with no deal would be disastrous, but you can be sure the MSM would not blame Brexit. It would be the EU - see Post's posts - the unions, greedy workers, immigrants, the Labour party, environmentalists, vegans.....anyone else.

Did they imagine that, or were they explicitly told it by charlatans like David Davis, or disaster capitalists like Rees-Mogg, and believed it because, in true public schoolboy style, if you spew any old with sufficient confidence, long words and a plummy accent, the plebs will take it on good faith?

We've been had.

Quote ="tigertot"Really? Capitalist greed caused the world's biggest financial disaster. The poor paid for it through austerity. The Tories got back in power. I am in no doubt that leaving with no deal would be disastrous, but you can be sure the MSM would not blame Brexit. It would be the EU - see Post's posts - the unions, greedy workers, immigrants, the Labour party, environmentalists, vegans.....anyone else.'" I'm sure you're right initially. I expect with the benefit of 50-100 years people will see the light. Right around the time Jacob Rees Mogg reckons it might be when we start to see whether it was worth it or not. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 86f48e3566 I'm very disappointed with the MSM. Their coverage of Brexit preparations has been woeful. There are lots of juicy stories too if they could drag themselves away from Westminster for a moment and do some digging. Fact is you can prepare your backside off for no deal but it would cost far more than the £5bn already put aside for it to do it anywhere near properly. At some point you have to ask if it's so expensive and time consuming why do it? It's like building another Titanic to be the lifeboat for the Titanic when we could just avoid the iceberg. I promise no more Titanic analogies now.

Quote ="tigertot"Really? Capitalist greed caused the world's biggest financial disaster. The poor paid for it through austerity. The Tories got back in power. I am in no doubt that leaving with no deal would be disastrous, but you can be sure the MSM would not blame Brexit. It would be the EU - see Post's posts - the unions, greedy workers, immigrants, the Labour party, environmentalists, vegans.....anyone else.'" I'm sure you're right initially. I expect with the benefit of 50-100 years people will see the light. Right around the time Jacob Rees Mogg reckons it might be when we start to see whether it was worth it or not. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 86f48e3566 I'm very disappointed with the MSM. Their coverage of Brexit preparations has been woeful. There are lots of juicy stories too if they could drag themselves away from Westminster for a moment and do some digging. Fact is you can prepare your backside off for no deal but it would cost far more than the £5bn already put aside for it to do it anywhere near properly. At some point you have to ask if it's so expensive and time consuming why do it? It's like building another Titanic to be the lifeboat for the Titanic when we could just avoid the iceberg. I promise no more Titanic analogies now.

Quote ="Bullseye"I'm sure you're right initially. I expect with the benefit of 50-100 years people will see the light. Right around the time Jacob Rees Mogg reckons it might be when we start to see whether it was worth it or not. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 86f48e3566 I'm very disappointed with the MSM. Their coverage of Brexit preparations has been woeful. There are lots of juicy stories too if they could drag themselves away from Westminster for a moment and do some digging. Fact is you can prepare your backside off for no deal but it would cost far more than the £5bn already put aside for it to do it anywhere near properly. At some point you have to ask if it's so expensive and time consuming why do it? It's like building another Titanic to be the lifeboat for the Titanic when we could just avoid the iceberg. I promise no more Titanic analogies now.'" I agree that the coverage of the implications of Brexit have been woeful. However, there has been wild exaggeration about empty shelves etc. As with most supply and demand situations, most things can be overcome by throwing additional resources at any particular situation and on the basis that there will be suppliers wanting to maintain supplies and customers wanting those goods, although there will be some disruption, most things will find a new level pretty damn quickly and any opportunities that arise form and inability to supply, for whatever reason, will quickly be filled. My company has certainly increased stock from overseas to overcome the short term, although these goal posts do look to have moved (or being on the move) and the key will be in stock piling essential supplies, to overcome any short term issues. The media love a crisis and they always seem desperate to create one wherever possible. From Brexit to weather, climate change, immigration etc, etc - these are al real issues but, we dont get balanced reporting on so many stories.

Quote ="Bullseye"I'm sure you're right initially. I expect with the benefit of 50-100 years people will see the light. Right around the time Jacob Rees Mogg reckons it might be when we start to see whether it was worth it or not. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 86f48e3566 I'm very disappointed with the MSM. Their coverage of Brexit preparations has been woeful. There are lots of juicy stories too if they could drag themselves away from Westminster for a moment and do some digging. Fact is you can prepare your backside off for no deal but it would cost far more than the £5bn already put aside for it to do it anywhere near properly. At some point you have to ask if it's so expensive and time consuming why do it? It's like building another Titanic to be the lifeboat for the Titanic when we could just avoid the iceberg. I promise no more Titanic analogies now.'" I agree that the coverage of the implications of Brexit have been woeful. However, there has been wild exaggeration about empty shelves etc. As with most supply and demand situations, most things can be overcome by throwing additional resources at any particular situation and on the basis that there will be suppliers wanting to maintain supplies and customers wanting those goods, although there will be some disruption, most things will find a new level pretty damn quickly and any opportunities that arise form and inability to supply, for whatever reason, will quickly be filled. My company has certainly increased stock from overseas to overcome the short term, although these goal posts do look to have moved (or being on the move) and the key will be in stock piling essential supplies, to overcome any short term issues. The media love a crisis and they always seem desperate to create one wherever possible. From Brexit to weather, climate change, immigration etc, etc - these are al real issues but, we dont get balanced reporting on so many stories.

All I can really comment on with any authority is how it would affect the NHS. It's about a lot more than just supply and demand of medicines.

You know what? It’s late in the day, but fair play to her on her latest offer. If she is serious, then I hope Corbyn isn’t a wally about it.

To you it is and you are entitled to that opinion - there are plenty of countries that trade very successfully with the EU that aren't members - these "Tiger" countries don't appear to have issues and they are growing at a far more rapid rate than any country in the EU.

The EU economy is in a better state than any of the larger countries in Europe - Germany is about to go into recession and France is a complete basket case.

Inequality has happened despite membership of the EU how is staying in going to help that? The UK is unique in that respect it is a issue in every country. Perhaps if we weren't spending c9bn in sporting the likes of Bulgaria we would have more money to support our own people. You are grasping at straws in respect of unemployment - but that's your perrogative.

What do I not like about EU laws - that our own courts dont have the utimate jurisdiction - ask Italy how they feel about not being able to implement what they feel is best for their country because the EU suggests it breaks some of their laws. It would be great if the government were prepared. I think it would be a positive thing if the government could offer subsides to attract new business - sadly this is not allowed under EU rules.

The EU is a bloated beaurocracy filled with the unelected such as Tusk, Barnier so like any large organisation waste will be significant. I have no issue with immigration diversity is a good thing provided the behaviours/values that we espose are adopted.

The government has invested record amounts on the NHS and Education - you could invest the whole GDP of the economy country in the NHS and it will not be sufficient so what is enough how much should we invest and how do we pay for it?

Hopefully,we leave with a deal but i am sure the best deal would have been attained if Brexit was a cross party affair from the word go instead of allowing the EU to get the upper hand in negotiations, because the UK didn't provide a united front.

I think we would be more agile - how is the EU's deal going with the US!! guarantee we would have a deal sorted quicker and on similar terms to the EU. Has the EU got advantageous terms compared to any other smaller country?

The EU is slow growth area - why would consider this a better option than dealing with the likes of India/China etc in the longer term?

The UK is the EU largest single market perhaps it is in their interest also to do a preferential deal with us?

Let’s hope Corbyn is smarter than you and sees this for the trap it is.

Whether Brexit does or doesn’t happen as a result of this ‘meeting’, I’ll guarantee you that the blame will be laid at the door of Corbyn/Labour by the MSM.

He should call another vote of no confidence.

:17l0wq8hWhich laws negatively impacted you? :17l0wq8h

It’s bigger than affecting one person, it’s how it affects the country as a whole. The EU has done great things when it comes to safety and the environment, but it’s a giant beast that is running away with itself. The EU has brought in the Marrakesh Political Declaration and this will affect every single one of us, it’s a declaration to make it easier for Africans to migrate to EU countries albeit legally, it will flood the labour market with Africans whether you be a Doctor, police officer, IT worker, train driver, civil servant etc there will be more people in this country as a result and more people using the infrastructure.

:17l0wq8hWhat don't you like about immigration? ?

What about the 114 Million euros a year it costs to move from Brussels to Strasbourg once a month.

I did say ‘if she is serious’. I’d like to think that even she wouldn’t rock up to the meeting just expecting him to provide Labour support for MV4.

Yes, it’s a trap in one sense. He’ll get the blame for facilitating a Tory Brexit on the one hand, and for it being too soft on the other. It’s an absolute shizzle time to be a political leader, and his ambitions will likely go the same way May’s have. She is, of course, asking him to sup from the poisoned cup that Cameron handed her. But the alternative is No Deal, so he is trapped anyway.

I don’t want to see him get Clegged, and i’d have preferred the tories to own this. However, that’s life and maybe this is a chance for both of them to go out as heroes, martyred on the political pyre that is Brexit. I think they’d deserve a commemorative mug, emblazoned with both their faces.

That could still happen, we haven’t left yet, if we leave without a deal the economy will more than likely go into a recession.