Every little helps.

If every fifth fan introduced a new one, we would have cracked it

Thats one way of looking at it. Lots of ifs and buts though, not sure i would be a generous lender if i were a banker based on what's been discussed.

You would be an out-of-work banker if your business decisions were based on the opinions of internet fans messageboards, rather than discussions with the people who actually run the business.

sssshh!

I don't think they are aware that the club is not run by RLFans posters, but by successful businessmen who DO know what they are doing.

So what more assurances would the club be able to give the banks about definite increases in gates to be able to pay back further borrowing? It's not rocket science is it whether youre from within the club or not, assurances cannot be given as to an increase in gates.

Debatable looking at the mess theyve got you into.

Again, you are asking the question of a fan on a messageboard, my opinion counts for nothing. However, are you telling me that business plans that show future growth in sales (i.e. inceased customer numbers) are laughed at by investors?

Again, why are fans never qualified business people. Youre doing a fair few people a dis-service on here.

I'm saying that business plans that show future growth will be questioned as to how those forecasts were made. I could go to a bank and say that i turned over 10000 units this year and am predicting i turnover 100000 units next year so can i borrow £5mill please. They will want to know on what basis i'm predicting my growth, it cannot just be a flimsy estimate such as increasing the opportunity like extending a stand, especially when the current product doesnt sell out and the estimated sales has never been regularly hit.

I don't believe I'm doing anybody a disservice, or indeed questioning anyone's business acumen. You ask a question which can only realistically be answered by the people who run Hull KR, not by its supporters regardless of their business ability (or lack of).

Now, I'm no marketing genius, but the growth in crowd required by Rovers to hit the widely quoted break-even figure is a mere 17.3%. That is in no way unrealistic with the correct strategy, and of course the right product being offered up on the pitch. (I will forgive you if you don't understand that last bit!

).

Guess we'll agree to disagree on your first point. We may not have all of the information that the insiders of the club have but we do have enough information to make educated assumptions about a fair few things. The facts i listed like the club not currently selling out, the club needing to average 10k to break even and the club never ever regularly achieving that figure are all pretty important factors to influence the situation. I guess the one thing missing is what kind of strategy and other factors Rovers are including to make the 17.3% rise realistic. Hudge in the papers has started to talk more about becoming a sustainable business and consolidating and i'm making an educated guess that it may be performances on the pitch and recruitment that suffer in the short term. I may be wrong but we'll see. Guess that might be the hit needed to take to ensure Rovers long term financial stability. The big question is whether that fits with getting 10k per game. Additional to the 10k per game which is likely to make you stable, how many more are needed through those new turnstyles to pay off the mounting debt?

The club sells out areas of the ground which are "good standard" accomodation, i.e. East Stand & RM Stand for virtually all SL games. It's unlikely that we can attract new supporters when all we can offer is a view behind the sticks (or behind the docks in the case of the South Stand!). By increasing the capacity of the East Stand, this will allow for a limited "walk up" to still get a decent pitchside view. I think Rovers should then stop selling tickets to home supporters for the North Stand, and offer the whole stand to visiting clubs (including Hull). The South Stand should only be used as an overspill when away teams require more than 1,200 tickets, and in my opinion, never be priced higher than a tenner.

To answer your final question, 10001! [size=50(although the timescale would obviously require some negotiation!). [/size

Sounds sensible. I just have my doubts i guess about how many additional Rovers fans there are out there that would suddenly start turning up.

Fair comment. However, given that RL is now more popular than the 80's you cannot put a ceiling on Rovers potential based on historical figures. For example, Hull's biggest ever 3 averages are 2007 (14,606), 2008 (13,432) & 2009 (13,244) (bit of a mini slump there that needs addressing!

)

Rovers are never going to match those figures, but a 10-11,000 average is certainly acheiveable (in my humble opinion of course).

Maybe it is. I hope it happens, as i've said elsewhere, i'd miss the derbys if they didnt happen anymore.

Don't forget that as shorter time ago as 2001, FC were only getting around 6,000 for top 6 rugby, in fact if you look at the stats they have had some awful attendances which are far below our all time SL low. I know the move to the KC brought out lots of new fans and this is what Rovers must do as well, improve facilities and produce a winning side and the crowds will come. Most of FC's newer fans will not have stepped a foot in the Boulevard and probably would not follow them should they return there, there is a new breed of fans to be won who will ONLY come if they are given good facilities, they liken it to going to the Odeon or to the Hull Truck and have no long term afinity to clubs, but we all need them to move forward.

Quote ="rover49"Don't forget that as shorter time ago as 2001, FC were only getting around 6,000 for top 6 rugby, in fact if you look at the stats they have had some awful attendances which are far below our all time SL low. I know the move to the KC brought out lots of new fans and this is what Rovers must do as well, improve facilities and produce a winning side and the crowds will come. Most of FC's newer fans will not have stepped a foot in the Boulevard and probably would not follow them should they return there, there is a new breed of fans to be won who will ONLY come if they are given good facilities, they liken it to going to the Odeon or to the Hull Truck and have no long term afinity to clubs, but we all need them to move forward.'" If anyones interested www.slstats.org/t9/Hull%20FC/

Quote ="rover49"Don't forget that as shorter time ago as 2001, FC were only getting around 6,000 for top 6 rugby, in fact if you look at the stats they have had some awful attendances which are far below our all time SL low. I know the move to the KC brought out lots of new fans and this is what Rovers must do as well, improve facilities and produce a winning side and the crowds will come. Most of FC's newer fans will not have stepped a foot in the Boulevard and probably would not follow them should they return there, there is a new breed of fans to be won who will ONLY come if they are given good facilities, they liken it to going to the Odeon or to the Hull Truck and have no long term afinity to clubs, but we all need them to move forward.'" If anyones interested www.slstats.org/t9/Hull%20FC/

Quote ="Big Dave T"If anyones interested www.slstats.org/t9/Hull%20FC/'" Interesting. In the three seasons prior to your move to the KC your average attendance was well below our three season in SL, with comparitive league standings. I know we aren't going to get the council to build us a state of the art new stadium, but with some decent improvements in facilities (especially in the form of a covered stand and cafe bar for away fans), there is no reason we cannot build another 1500 on the average. We are unlikely to match FC's highs, but we can improve to the 10,000 mark given the right infrastructure and performances.

Quote ="Big Dave T"If anyones interested www.slstats.org/t9/Hull%20FC/'" Interesting. In the three seasons prior to your move to the KC your average attendance was well below our three season in SL, with comparitive league standings. I know we aren't going to get the council to build us a state of the art new stadium, but with some decent improvements in facilities (especially in the form of a covered stand and cafe bar for away fans), there is no reason we cannot build another 1500 on the average. We are unlikely to match FC's highs, but we can improve to the 10,000 mark given the right infrastructure and performances.

Some of them will find a way to make it not comparable mate don't you worry

Using the figures i posted i think it's fair to say thats a possibility. I guess the one thing i would say is that with us been at 6400 in 2001 there are a fair number of fans to come out of the woodwork. With you currently been at 8000 youve got less fans to find hidden somewhere. I do think the new stadium was a big factor in attracting the bandwaggoners. I'm not sure building a new stand will have the same level of impact but the figures i posted shows anything can happen i guess.

Thankyou Dave for being honest.

I'm always honest, you just dont agree with me most of the time.

The one big plus Rovers do have is the atmosphere the staduim generates. It is second to none when it is rocking, and lots of fans want to be part of the 'East stand experience. I really do this we will attract more fans.

Most clubs have significant numbers of fans who sit or stand behind the sticks. wigan and Hull both have decent numbers who do because it's cheaper

I have always watched the game from behind the sticks both at the Boulevard and now at the KC. Its personal choice for watching rugby I prefer along the side for football.

That brings on the point that Craven Park currently does not cater well for away fans which must be having an effect on the travelling numbers. I know its a cost not needed at the mo but the north and south stands are open to the elements and although we are a summer game February and March can be nasty in those stands.

The South stand as mentionned earlier should be an overflow stand at worse and cheaper for obvious reasons IMO.

AGREED, IMO we shouldnt charge more than a tenner to get in the south stand.