I've felt for a while that regional academies offering better (rather than more) opportunities was a good idea, in a competition played at a higher standard.

5 or 6 stepping up each year to full-time training from ~50 players across both squads currently. It might just be 5 or 6 from one squad of 25 in the future, but tbf but that's still a fair bit of wastage.

Be interesting to see how it turns out. If anybody else wants to do it differently, they just need a few hundred thousand £s to keep their club afloat in SL each year.

Wigan and Leeds invest heavily, not so much because they're wiser, but mostly because they're richer.

Clubs current academy players that move to the new club are ring fenced to that club for four years.

A few years ago the Newcastle Knights had a local billionaire running the team and he made the decision to set up the best possible junior development.
He put Wayne Bennett on to the task, and Wayne hired ex Australian coach Graham Murray to design the programme.
What they did was decide to put all the money into identifying talent at the earliest possible age and train about 10 kids across the age groups at the sort of level you would expect young Olympic hopefuls to train. They set up what is called the High Performance Unit with a skills coach (former firstgrade halfback Troy Pezet) and a Phd qualified trainer (Englishman Colin Sanctuary). The first guy to "graduate" from the high performance unit is Sione Mataútia who last year became the youngest ever player for Australia. The next two to come through will be halves pairing Jack Cogger and Brock Lamb. Those two have represented NSW and Australia in every team since they were 14 and were the halves for Australian Schoolboys earlier this year, where Lamb was MOTM in 2 games, playing against boys up to 2 years older than himself. Lamb is the most skilful 17 year old player I've ever seen. He has kicking and playmaking skills that any firstgrade half would envy.

The point is, smaller numbers of elite juniors getting a lot of time and money spent on them seems to be working for the Knights. I suppose time will tell if these guys go on with it, but I can name you 10 Knights juniors who have skills like 10 year NRL veterans, because they got firstgrade level coaching and training from age 13 or 14.

As a side note, the first choice to run the High Performance Unit at the Knights was a guy named Graig Sandercock, but he turned the job down because he got a head coaching job instead.

Look who have the best academy's and who are top of the table?

Look who have the most academy trained players in there first team and where are they in the league?

Investing in youth is the only way to support the first team and merging will help but is doomed for failure when the other team take a rising star?

I have read this now 3 or 4 times but can not get my head round it the first time i read it i thought no way but now if and its a big if its done right it might be the start of something good for both teams until it does i will keep my fingers crossed and hope

I must admit, yesterday it seemed like chaos would be the only outcome, but having slept on it and reading various bits and pieces including the bit from Roopy as you say, if its done in the right way it could work. we aren't talking about 20 players making the first team squads every year because that just isnt happening now we are lucky to get one a year, but if we can ( and its a big can) produce 4 or 5 S/L class players between us each season it is absolutely massive. If both KR & FC could introduce 2 new SL quality home grown players each season, as are the wigans, saints and leeds of this world, imo it could be a risk worth taking. There is the concern over a lack of identity for the players, but on the other hand Scott Taylor, an FC fan came through our ranks, because we gave him the opportunity. Now I know he is back there next season, but thats his choice. It will be a bitter pill to swallow for the current crop of players, but if the joint academy can scout around the local sides correctly, from U9/10 upwards it could be massive for both clubs......or it could fall flat on it's , but at least we have tried something different and new rather than waiting for somebody else to take the lead. could you imagine if salford and widnes or cas and wakie had done it first and left us behind. We would call our clubs backwards and stuck in the dark ages.

Well that's my head above the parapit!

Adam Pearson & Mike Smith stated they will adopt a NFL type draft system with FC & KR having first choice alternate years. If that system is adopted a player can refuse to join that team but will then have to sit the season out and join the following year's draft or the team in question can claim compensation.

Craig Murdock is spot on if a player is good enough to play first team rugby at 17 which team does he play for www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Combined ... story.html

Craig Murdock is spot on if a player is good enough to play first team rugby at 17 which team does he play for www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Combined ... story.html

Quote ="Aldy"Craig Murdock is spot on if a player is good enough to play first team rugby at 17 which team does he play for www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Combined ... story.html'" Don't forget Craig has a vested interest as he is a players agent the more kids playing at our clubs is in his interest, he would be against a merger. The only down side I can see is if the new set up finds new Daren lockyear or Brad Fittler there might be an interesting tug of war, but I would expect Wigan Leeds or Saints to pinch him of us anyway. I will watch with interest, My initial thoughts are posative as we loose to many kids who will never be good enough for the first teams. That weakens the local amature clubs. I still think that the local clubs should be the ones to coach & bring on the players of the future, I am not against the pro clubs getting involved with training camps or the odd acadamy type game or bring in the top talent for extra training & help.

Quote ="Aldy"Craig Murdock is spot on if a player is good enough to play first team rugby at 17 which team does he play for www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Combined ... story.html'" Don't forget Craig has a vested interest as he is a players agent the more kids playing at our clubs is in his interest, he would be against a merger. The only down side I can see is if the new set up finds new Daren lockyear or Brad Fittler there might be an interesting tug of war, but I would expect Wigan Leeds or Saints to pinch him of us anyway. I will watch with interest, My initial thoughts are posative as we loose to many kids who will never be good enough for the first teams. That weakens the local amature clubs. I still think that the local clubs should be the ones to coach & bring on the players of the future, I am not against the pro clubs getting involved with training camps or the odd acadamy type game or bring in the top talent for extra training & help.

Not a fan by any stretch but will wait until more details are unveiled before further criticism.

I really don't like the sound of the kit - yellow and blue?? nooooo!

Quote ="Aldy"Craig Murdock is spot on if a player is good enough to play first team rugby at 17 which team does he play for www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Combined ... story.html'" How often is that likely to be an issue though? Most youngsters are 18/19 before they're even ready for dual-reg with a Championship club. It's pretty rare for a player to make his debut before going full-time, I think. Lancaster maybe did at Hull, in fairness. The obvious solution would be that the team that wants to play him and drafts him into their squad and losses their first pick in the next draft. If the other team has the next first pick and wants the same player, there could be an issue, I suppose. But they've got 4 years to sort it out, and how many initiatives last that long in RL anyway?

Quote ="Aldy"Craig Murdock is spot on if a player is good enough to play first team rugby at 17 which team does he play for www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Combined ... story.html'" How often is that likely to be an issue though? Most youngsters are 18/19 before they're even ready for dual-reg with a Championship club. It's pretty rare for a player to make his debut before going full-time, I think. Lancaster maybe did at Hull, in fairness. The obvious solution would be that the team that wants to play him and drafts him into their squad and losses their first pick in the next draft. If the other team has the next first pick and wants the same player, there could be an issue, I suppose. But they've got 4 years to sort it out, and how many initiatives last that long in RL anyway?

I don't think we'll be doing things quite like that (and impressive as it sounds, I'd worry a bit about hot-housing young lads). But the principle is right. Focusing resources, rather than spreading them as widely (i.e. thinly) as possible.

I know many fans identify with these teams (probably even more on the other side of the river, of late), but to me they're a means to an end, rather than an end in themselves.

Looking at the pure business side of things it would be interesting to compare the return on investment of each academy player which achieves 10 or more superleague games with that of the rest of the superleague clubs. That may be a good indicator of coaching, ability and quality.

Strange how so many Hull youth teams play in national/regional cup finals and yet local lads fail to make much of an impact after that!

Sad that the heart has been ripped out of both clubs as the juniors are the lifeblood, in what on the face of it appears to be nothing more than a cost cutting exercise. Although open minded to hear both clubs explanations and the pros and cons I genuinely feel the cons have it.

Sad day, redundancies and failed expectations i feel.

PS: I wonder if a certain Mr Peacock will think this is a progressive step? Now that would be an interesting answer!

I appear to be the only person in the world that likes this idea.

What both clubs have done so far hasn't borne many fruits since Hull brought through Cooke, Yeaman, Horne as top players.

We need to try something different.

Currently Hull's set up is better than ours,however, who have they produced over the last five year's? Lineham.

But look at football, the top clubs attract players, juniors from all over the world.

Rugby league is bigger than Hull, maybe we might be able to put together an elite youth development scheme.

If an when we unearth some gems, then, let's worry about how we divvy them up.

fair point but lineham was from York and didn't join us till he was 19,we have had a few who might make it abdull htw etc but like you am prepared to see how it goes

Abdul came through Rovers scholarship and U16's so hard for Hull to claim development rights on the lad.

Can we claim Hodgson as one of ours then ?

Who?

People seem to think if it's a draft system and say rovers pick a player who supports Hull that it's going to be a problem and he won't want to play for us and vice versa but both clubs are already full of players who don't support the team they play for

Of course. And I'd disagree with Easty - Abdull is your product, just as Larrikin Liam Watts is ours. Imo. And according to the rules.

But who cares? None of them play for us now. I don't think about the young local colts halfback whose opportunities were curtailed by the arrival of Roger Millward in the 1960s. Actually, now I am, but you know what I mean.

It shouldn't be about scoring points off one another, or worrying about Minns being ahead of Hallett in the pecking order, because he might be... well, better.

I want to see good players in a successful Hull KR team. If they come through the academy, in whatever form, then great. If they're Australian, Polynesian, Melanesian or Lancastrian, that's fine too.

We've been too ready to swallow how Leeds, Wigan and Saints want to see themselves, rather than what they are, which when you boil it down is a rather less romantic recipe for success. They're selling a dream that is based on a very questionable premise, in which cause and effect are reversed. Again imo.

The one-size fits all tick box approach of licensing reinforced it.

This merger might not work and it'll certainly offend some fans' sensibilities, but to me it seems very rational for our two clubs, their current circumstances.

Lancastrian?

That's going too far.

The argument against elite junior programmes - Josh Mantellato - he never spent a day in an elite junior programme. He got himself fit enough to be an elite sportsman due to his job as a personal trainer at a gym and learnt his kicking skills in his backyard by himself. He got his break at age 23 after being a standout in a country football league, and after paying his own way to play for Italy in World Cup qualifiers.
But I suppose he is the one in a thousand who didn't come through an elite junior set up to reach the top these days.

NO I am with you on this goose has i have said on a post on this thread i will be happy for it to work i just have my fears it will not but if it does it will be no thanks to the RFL

I also had stated my positivity for this idea. I think there are clearly things that the clubs haven't yet disclosed, but in theory I am behind it. A couple of things though....

Name: Humberside does not exist, so not even a sniff of that horrible name. Hull and East Riding, (although the name of the Union club that used to frequent the circle) or Hull and East Yorkshire, or even Hull Thunder Robins, but not Humberside!

Colour: whilst I can see the merit of yellow and blue (HCC colours) we will clash with Leeds and wire, so an away shirt of red and black would be acceptable.

Coaching: are we to use a mixture of our current set ups? with all our current sides doing well and improving picking and choosing coaches may be a massive headache especially with the perceived best mate culture at FC

Director of Rugby: Was Jamie Peacock aware of this before he signed up, if not I wonder how he feels about it.

The draft system: this will, I believe be a bit more straight forward than imagined. However a good point made by another poster was if a club has real injury problems and the draft isn't while after u19, what happens then? Or is there a mini draft after u16?

Just a few thoughts at this early stage, I'm sure others will have their own thoughts on this but let's get them out there.