I think that's a good thing about this league, as all five teams (ie virtually half the league) have a realistic shot at the title; when was the last time you could say that about Super League, the Premier League or any other competition in this country?

Thanks Vikingman!

Thank God you posted this!!!! If it had come from someone that even had an ounce of credibility we would have been worried!!

But there is only 11 teams in it and one of them started on -9! The rest are just teams you should beat with next to no fan base.Haven are going backwards fast. Toulouse are generally easy beats. Dewsbury and Keighley are easy games most of the time. Only Sheffield and Batley ate unpredictable and a possible tough test. The Rail cup has been a mess this year with the weather and teams having to play midweek in front of 300 people or less.

Exactly, so virtually half the league have a shot at the title. In previous years it's not been hard to pick out who is going to win the league, and even in Super League it's usually been one of two.




Remember who's forum you're on

What we are bemoaning is the fact that the excitement and [iraison d'etre[/i has been lost from the Championship. We remember how exciting it could be for the clubs challenging for promotion, and how important each game seemed at the time. This competition has been devalued by licensing – that’s the problem!

We’ve lost about 800 fans since the introduction of licensing. This is why we are now so desperate to get out of it before it’s too late. You have said yourself that we should concentrate on winning the league – but we are not are we?

We are just ticking boxes and giving the RFL a bit less wriggle room on the areas they criticized us on last time. The fact we don’t actually have to win the GF shows just how worthless this competition has become.

If we still had P&R our emphasis would be channeled into winning this league and the games leading up to the GF would have real meaning and excitement. It wouldn’t be so bad to remain here on those terms.

At least we'd always have the following year, and our future wouldn’t rely on corrupt old men with an agenda all of their own.

Your entitled to your opinion Pepe, and of course losing numbers is something I think Barrow may have an issue with after winning the competition but still playing the same old faces, what I would say is that at the time, in Warrington I didnt feel the competition had been devalued at all. Barrow won on the day and I would have been devastated if Halifax had won the game.

Perhaps the main difference was we felt fortunate to be in that situation, a GF, knowing we wouldnt win promotion especially straight after winning promotion the previous year, that of course the disapointing NRC loss against yourselves, who feel that regardless of the situation your club deserves to be in the big league.

I dont necessarily agree with that but I do think Widnes could be a competetive side in SL simply because you could bank on 6-7k most weeks, have a wealthy owner a good ground and some good young players.

The problem is, is it’s not just my opinion. I didn’t start this thread. It seems that 800 other Widnes fans feel even stronger than I do. Look at this thread and you’ll see that it isn’t just Widnes fans either.

I have no doubt that Halifax would’ve increased their attendance figures far more than they did last season had there still been P&R in place.

I know we all enjoy getting to a final, but it’s getting fans interested and excited enough to turn up to the league games that we need. Unfortunately, while some fans are happy to turn up for a final regardless of P&R or licences, getting them interested in attending for the rest of the season in order to bring in the atmosphere, excitement and, just as importantly, money seems to be the problem.

When the RFL took away P&R from the Lower league, they ripped its heart out. They can spout all the bullsh*t they want about making this league a great competition in its own right, but a change of name and adding a French club just doesn’t cut it.

Fans are voting with their feet. If it was as exciting as you seem to be suggesting, that wouldn’t be happening, would it?

As for the little snipe at Widnes fans, who believe that our club 'deserves' SL, well you show me a better option to fill that promised Championship spot for a licence?

It’s not only Widnes fans who think that Widnes should get that licence. We’ve been shafted far too often. One of the clubs which got the nod over us last time struggled to get through just one season. How on earth do you get fans excited about a league, or even a sport, which has a governing body which is so fundamentally corrupt/incompetent that it ignores its own criteria, uses double standards, tells lies, and who’s main concern is how the game looks on the map?

They don’t. All but the hard-liners give a toss anymore, and even many of those are starting to throw the towel in.

Your club has come from Championship 1 and won the Championship GF at the first shot. So you have got a bit of momentum behind you at the moment You are bound to have an increase in attendance and excitement. As you get knock back after not back by the RFL, and it seems that nothing your club does makes any difference, you’ll understand.

Since 2002 I have attended 6 NL1/Championship GF's , 3 as a neutral , 3 as a supporter of a participating club , last seasons was different , it had a different feel to it , yes the Keighley fans were estatic , the Oldham fans were devastated , the Barrow fans also were happy , they have come a long way in a short time and had suffered dissapointment earlier in the season , however it was different to all the others , there were no tears from the Fax fans , no broken dreams , the ' job ' was already done by making the final

As others have posted , until a final is made there just isn't the same level of interest , a final is an ' event ' it will draw in the floating fair weather fan , an excuse for a booze up and a sing song on a coach , unfortunatley that isn't enough to support our clubs long term

Also as others have posted , the inclusion of a trip abroad and a new grander sounding name is not enough , a lot of work is needed , and a lot of imagination and inspiration also , but I dont actually think the RFL are interested enough or even care enough to put the effort in

Then as you've alluded to many many times - The Championship Chairmen have to take up the mantle themselves - collectively.

No need to patronise me fella, I can clearly see you didnt start the thread, also I am not naive enough to see that most people want P and R and that not having it could have a negative affect on a clubs crowd. I was just stating that its not my opinion. And I am happy for no P an R for so many reasons, mainly because I can see the game outside my small town.



I agree, and If you had read my post you would have seen that I said lower numbers is something we may have to address at Barrow, if not this year, then certainly next year should we be sucsessful again.




Originally I wasnt going to reply to you, as the majority of this post is the kind of Brainfart I could read on the VT anyday for the last 12 months, however I took exeption to this part. As I said earlier on this reply I am not Naive Pepe , I am well aware that Barrow are lightyears away from getting a licence, and at the moment do not deserve one on many fronts. Had you read my posts you would have found that out without me telling you.

Also had you read my posts you would have read this.........................



Because if you had read that properly you wouldn't have suggested my post was a "snipe" as I actually believe your club was as well placed as any to join SL last year.

P.S I f you haven't got the time to read my post s properly, please don't reply, I want to talk about Rugby League. I haven't got the time to get into a slanging match with someone who cant read before he shoots from the hip.

Marvwoodburn you seem like a geniuine fan and i wish your club all the best.I think it is made it more difficult for widnes to win the grand final, due to salary cap and we are the only team to be putting academy ,and youth in our first team squad.This year played Yates,flynn,thompson,grady,hulme,houghton,and strong from our youth set up.This is alot of players to expect to win the grandfinal.One or two is fine, but you need a good balance.The salary cap makes the championship more even for everyone.If a squad gets a handful of injuries then we could lose to a lower team,so now it is much more difficult to dominate.

I asolutely agree with what you've put and it annoyed me that promottion and relegation was also scrapped in part due to 'too much focus on the bottom of Super League'. As a neutral that's part of what made the league (SL) entertaining. And to appease the 'smaller clubs' they just through a load of money for us to fight over and quell any moaning.

Good on you, eh?
As for the rest of us and the game in the lower league…


Contradiction number one:
You like the fact that there’s no P&R, but admit it is damaging attendances. Given that attendances are required to keep these clubs alive it may soon be difficult to: That may go for us all.

This is sort of the point of this thread.



Contradiction number two:

You say that you

Then you clearly insult those fans by saying they:

Regardless of the situation, you say. In other words you are saying those fans would be demanding a licence for Widnes whether we deserved one or not. [i‘Regardless of the situation’[/i.

This is an insult and a slur which Widnes fans regularly have to face, both on here and on the VT. But our view is based on the facts of the situation and not regardless of them.


I have read your posts properly. Perhaps you should think about what you are writing in order to keep yourself from contradicting yourself so often.

It doesn’t help matters when your English is as mangled as this:


Now I don’t normally do the ‘grammar police’ thing, because I’m well aware of my own short-comings, but I feel this had to be an exception.

When we lost to Barrow last year in the Grand Final is was not that dramatic. We had the boxed ticked. Even if we had won we would still be playing in the Championship. There is for me a lack of excitement now. We have the best young players in the Halifax area snapped up by SL clubs and there is nothing we can do and the RFL do not want to help. We cant compete with SL clubs or offer the top Youngsters a chance to play SL for there home town team. In the England U16s team last week there was 4 Kids from Siddal and King Cross Park all at Warrington or Bradford. We have Luke Ambler at Leeds. Huddersfield and Bradford have to raid Halifax Service area as they have nothing in their own areas. So do Fax waste money and run an Academy full of lads who are not the best from the area and probably not going to make the grade and end up at Siddal like is the way things are now? Whats the point? Widnes can afford to do that most others cant. We have SL clubs who have a higher quota on overseas players than the championship and also who raid Championship service areas. No real wonder why there are few cup shocks is it! The Rugby League Soul has been ripped out and the way the game is being run is slowly destroying the Championship. Does the RFL care? Seemingly not.

We have Crusaders given all the help possible to get in to SL- Ignored Salary Cap. Bring over as many Aussies as they can and the RFL are behind it! ALL the championship clubs have been treated like crap. They are only interested in expanding at any cost. The real fans and the people involved in the game are just treated like dirt.

Does Wigan at home in the cup boost anyone's interest?

Cheer up you miserable gits

They havent beaten the French side yet.......

Non sueur

Barrow now favourites to get a licence according to "Super League" posters on various sites.

What a difference a weekend makes

I didnt really admit anything or contradict myself, I said It might be a problem Barrow have to contend with this year and next. But my own opinion is that no P and R is better for the game as a whole, I may be proved wrong in time.



There was no slur intended at Widnes, my apologies if that has been the case with yourself. However since nobody else seems to have interprepted my comments as a slur it seems a little strange you would suggest so.



Check the bit in bold and underlined, under "contradiction number 2" we go on the grammar thing all day if your so inclined.

However I can see where this nonsense is going and I bid you good day, hopefully see some of you at ours (early may IIRC) and in the Northern Rail cup at yours.

Until they rip apart Craven Park, they'll be staying right where they are.

When franchising came in I said it would kill the professional game.

It is wrong' it is uncompetative' it encourages complacency.

Crowds are down at ALL Non Relegation clubs since the architect of this cartel engineered this farce and his mouthpiece is the former failed executive of British Tennis.

Any club outside the cartel will ultimately lose their coach if he is any good' their best players' and sadly their fans.

Bring back promotion and relegation your crowds our crowds Barrow's crowds Fax's crowds and every other clubs crowds in this league would benefit.

Ignore the games natural supporters at your peril.It is time for chairmen of clubs outside this cartel to tell Sky some important facts.

Never lose interest. You have had it tough but I think the worst is behind you now. I would rather watch wires play(and hopefully beat)widnes than have to go to wales or london. Chin up,keep plodding on,see you in SL soon!

Nice sentiments , lets hope you will be just as sympathetic for the rest of us left outside SL and whoever gets the bullet to make way for the Chemics , the point is not that it is unfair on Widnes , I have no doubt that the vast majority of Widnes fans would prefer to gain a SL place by winning the comp , rather than ' ticking boxes '

Thankyou mate.I would rather promotion and relegation every year and spend what you like.Then we could smash this league, with our money man in charge.