I work for a furnishings trimmings company and i can confirm that we have taken measurements of Eddie and Stevo's butt for the manufacture of soft black and white cushions for the said Sky Room. The name on the order is Mr S.O.C Stobbnes. Hmmm



Widnes are certainly pulling out all the stops. All you need now is a jacuzzi for Woody - just to hammer home the application. I hear Cuerdley Marsh is being sought after for that very purpose.

That would make sense tbh! As Sky whinged about our gantry hence why when on TV they smack a custom travelling one in our main stand

so you would of thought to please the pay masters and attract more stuff like semi finals and maybe internationals that a nice place for camera men's butties and big wigs seating would make sense for all!

That's be a typhoon then!

Wether figures are fiddled or not Widnes do not have the turnover required never mind how close to the required figure that might be. Are you suggesting the RFL are incompetant ? Maybe for example Barrow could tell them their average crowd is 2902 not 1902 and fiddle their turnover figures too.

Am I in the minority in thinking honesty is the best policy ?

True and that's what Widnes seem to be doing this season with crowds especially! Also we have had no free ticket offers this season so I guess that is to say... look here's are avaerage crowds and with not a single discount ticket on show either!

In terms of 1mill we were very close last time and have added 4/5 sponsors since then anyway! Hard to fiddle books as need to go through tax man as well!

I think you deserve a franchise. The way your club seems to be run is similar to Wigan since IL took over. You have the stadia and youth set up in place. But i think SL should have a presence in Cumbria, if it is 1 in 1 out i hope Barrow get it. FWIW i'd like to see Yourselves and Barrow replace Castleford and Wakefield.

We are honest and we have alot more in place than Fax,Barrow or Leigh.We are in pole postion,and we deserve to be after all our badluck.We have suffered enough this year.But a Northern Rail final for a poor season and what have Leigh done?



All i here from leigh and fax is moaning.

Not from me - i've supported your push for SL on many threads. What i find lamentable is the parody that you'll finish in seventh spot this year and get the license. That's not the fault of Widnes. I lay the blame entirely at the door of the RFL. It's their system that allows you to do this. Had you not won the NRC i'm damn sure you'd have had a squad this year that would have swept all before them aside. SOC has played the cards dealt to him correctly but it does nothing for the credibility of any "sport".

Oh, and Leigh and Fax should start with capital letters. Where's your respect !!

Widnes have more fans than anyone in the Championship of that there is no doubt.

It is not that I do not like Widnes because that is not true. What I cannot stomach is the idea that we have to meet criteria (which have been changed) and' when I say we' I mean all Championship clubs' to enable us to apply for a franchise.

And although Crusaders played at Neath tonight even Hunslet got a better gate than that last night.

I am totally against franchising because it rewards failure and even worse stifles ambitions of clubs who can't get one because of different rules which will be changed as and when to keep a team below where they should rightfully be if some overpaid underachieving clown at the RFL decides so.

Do you know how much Richard Lewis earned last year ? Since his appointment and the introduction of his daft experiment Non Relegation and all Championship crowds have declined.

He will say that is because of the recession but his salary has still gone up.

"Furnishings trimmings"? Upholsterers! They're called upholsterers. No wonder people don't take you seriously at times!

It's not even that. Hell, i don't know what we do! I'm just an accountant. And certainly yes, no-one should EVER take me seriously. I type out of my 'arris 100% of the time. There by the grace of Mods am i allowed to post on here

IMO Widnes should never have been relegated simple as. As a young kid starting off in rugby (late 70's) I followed Widnes for your success, as all kids do at 8 years old. I know I have given you lot a bit of stick over time but you should be first in line and I don't think many would disagree.
It's just a shame you haven't performed on the pitch but that will come once the squad is built. Good luck and I hope you beat Toulouse tomorrow and to SL.

Well i agree the system is unfair, and i have been disappointed with our season.I admit like to watch a winning team just like FAX.Happy now Littlerick?





=#FF0000Offthecuff, cut the swearing mate. You know the rules. Chris.

P.S. you could have said Littlethick or Littlehick, you just got lazy.

Why would you expect RL clubs to apply that policyu when messrs Lewis and Wood don't apply it.

Comment from RL forum on BBC last evening from John Ledger (RFL media bloke) "most Championship clubs run U18s and U20s sides"



=#FF0000(Removed) no such thing as U20s at Championship level this season for starters

=#FF0000Demon - you are welcome to post here but do not get around the swear filter again.

Chris

One thing which the licence system, under the current RFL dictatorship, was never meant to be.


If this were not the case, then no Championship club would ever be in a position to get a licence. Certain metrics can never be achieved in the lower league in the same way they can be in Super League. That doesn’t mean that a Championship club could not achieve better results on these metrics than the Current SL clubs under threat. In other words, Just by being in SL can improve certain metrics that the same club would not be able to achieve in the Championship, so your point is moot. Just by Widnes moving up to SL would up certain metrics to an extent that it betters several current SL clubs in areas where it now doesn’t while in the Championship. The same could probably be said for a couple more Championship clubs imo.

So, to try and judge CC/SL clubs on a purely like for like basis would be grossly unfair and not signify the likely potential of how any CC club would actually perform in SL. This would be just as likely, if not more so, to see legal action taken against the RFL imo.


Staggering the announcement makes perfect sense. Any Championship club given a licence will need plenty of time to build a competitive side. This will both help that club and strengthen the competitiveness of Super League. Having a new club left with a few scraps to pick up, in order to build a team, and will just be whipping boys sat at the bottom of the table, with little hope for that season. So, giving the advanced notice makes perfect sense.

Giving notice to the club to drop down would be a disaster for the remainder of that season for said club. It would make the remaining fixtures a complete joke and those results could well affect the standings of the SL table and thus its credibility!

Their gates, sponsors and other revenue streams would be affected far more if it is announced half way through the season than at the end. Either way, it will be disastrous for the demoted club.

Rumours and leaks will always be part of any team sport regardless. That’s the way it is. It will happen before the decision is made no matter when it is made, so it will make no difference at all.




It will be a disaster for whoever gets the boot, no matter what. These clubs will already be carrying SL sized debts anyway. Player contracts will become void should a club be demoted from SL. Some of these clubs – at least the ones likely to be booted out – have been making false promises about new stadiums for years. They all made promises of getting them built during the current licence period, and would have only themselves to blame should this then backfire financially.


Oh, and the whole process is unethical, and this has little to do with when clubs find out their fate.

This has been planned pretty much since Steve O’Connor took over. I think it was Andy Wilson who mentioned it after we were turned down for a licence (although it could’ve been Dave Hatfield}. He went on about a media hospitality area that will be built for the press and broadcasters, while reporting from a freezing cold dump – somewhere in Sooperdooperleagueland.

Yes, we know!

Don’t you think that you may be preaching to the wise here?

Well yes now it does

Sorry, I cannot agree with this. What you have just said is that it is justifiable to weaken the elite competition for the sake of change. If you don't match up to the current clubs in SL against the criteria, you don't deserve to be in the SL. There can be no debate on the fact that only the most successful/eligible clubs should be in the elite competition.

Nor would there be any case for legal action as all clubs would be treated the same, I would suggest that you are in support of the current discriminatory practice solely for the reason it suit Widnes, remember how it felt when it was Crusaders benefitting from such behaviour.



Still don't see why you need more time than you did under P & R. Perhaps the Championship should operate a franchise system following that logic?

What the points above have highlighted is however is that the sport is being governed poorly (nothing like stating the obvious

). Totally agree with the point you make that the gap between the SL and Champs is growing, much as it has with Premiership football, through the redirection of the sports funds into the top flight. Therefore for the sport remain viable in the long term the governing body should be addressing this gap. Reviewing the distribution of central funding and PR for competitions etc would provide more competitive Chamionship leagues, retain the sports fan base and provide a stable foundation for the oh so precious Super League. And address possibility of a split from the SL/RFL by the Champ clubs, as they and the fans become increasingly disillusioned with the RFL and its governance.



True, but it looks like its here to stay. The RFL are obviously secure in the knowledge that they can do as they please.

I see Millward mentioned on GMR last night that Leigh will be alright for attendances because of the crowd size they will get on Saturday....

Very good coach and a brilliant prophet. Or does he know something we don't?



He also mentioned that they will be alright for turnover because of the partnership they have with LSV... what partnership is that? They give the LSV money and play in that stadium?

I'm afraid it is their competition and they can set the rules by which clubs are allowed to enter. If a club signs an agreement that they will abide by the final decision of the RFL then the club really doesn't have a leg to stand on. If the club doesn't want to participate then they don't have to take part. The RFL are not idiots... idiots would have been thrown out long ago for some of the stunts these guys pull, the franchise stuff is a murky vague world. Just look at the handling of CC when they went bust... 'no problems just start up a new club up north and take over their licence!!!'

I would be quite happy in the position we are in if the RFL did away with franchising and simply said the winner of the GF goes up and P&R is back on. What a season we could look forward to next year if that was the case?

I quite disagree with this. It makes common sense to me. I advocated this taking place when P&R was in situ. The club going up needs all the help it can get in becoming competitive in year one otherwise we won't attract new fans. Going from a competition where [imost[/i

other clubs are operating on £300k to one in which most are operating on about £1.1m -1.2m means that lower league club should be in a position to strengthen it's side. Plus there are all the other aspects like marketing.. driving up ticket sales and revenue everything CC didn't do last time.

As for the club coming down... unfortunately I suspect they will be looked after. I don't expect they will be asked to drop from a £1.2m salary cap to £300k in their first season.

I think the 'partnership' also involves a share of any profits from the whole LSV site given to the 'partners'. Maybe they have charged Blackburn Rovers a fortune for allowing their reserves to play there

No it doesn’t weaken SL at all. If the CC club is likely to be as strong, if not even stronger than the SL club, then how does that weaken the competition?

In your own words:

This gives any SL club a massive, and unfair, advantage during the licence process. You simply cannot compare like for like in order to judge how the Championship club will compare. Your way would condemn some excellent clubs to the lower league forever – and unjustly so.


So how can a Championship ever hope to equal a SL club on turnover, given the extra sponsorship money, higher attendances and £1.4 Million they will all get?

How are they going to be able to compete on attendances, given that people are starting to vote with their feet in the Championship, because of the licence system and the vastly greater away support you get in SL?

How can a Co-op Championship club compete with player strength, compared to a SL club, when the CC club plays in the lower division with a £300,000k limit compared to a club playing in SL with a £1.6Million cap?

How can a CC club compete on youth development when most clubs in this league cannot afford to run academies and, we now hear, aren’t even allowed to run scholarship teams?


Because comparing clubs from both of these very different leagues on a like for like basis, does not show what the CC club is capable of and stacks the odds too far in the favour of SL clubs, making it impossible for any Championship club to gain access to SL. This effectively would make Super League a cartel, which are illegal in this country. Thus a restraint of trade lawsuit would stand a very good chance of success imo.



It makes no difference to a Widnes fan. Unless the RFL shaft us again, it looks like we are in, regardless of this little discussion. However, I do feel that the lower leagues are being shat on and cast adrift unfairly and, judging CC/SL clubs on a like for like basis would be another kick in the teeth and affect every CC club from 2012, if the RFL chose to go down that route. Therefore your point is totally moot.




Could you please explain this?


P&R did suffer from having far too little time to build a squad. This imo is why so many newly promoted sides suffered. Just ask the Leigh fans.


And as such, handing them the power to make SL a closed shop won’t help. To follow your logic, this would be the last nail in the coffin for the lower leagues.

As Demon says Leigh RLFC are partners in LSV and get a share of the income so who knows we may hit the turnover.

Maybe Ian Nostradamus Millward knows what gate we will be getting, the flaw in the criteria is that we could in theory give away 5000 free tickets or however many we need to get the 2500 average and that would qualify



now if only we had a GF appearance or won the NRC

Evening Derek, found out today that the LSV are looking to hugely reduce costs and that every LSV employee has had to re-apply for their own jobs, so I can't see us getting a huge dividend from them somehow!