If I was Radders I'd threaten him with physical violence again.
It worked last time, apparently.

Shaul has some top quality attributes; pace to burn, agility, evasion etc - he's probably the best broken field runner in SL & scores some great tries.

However, there are reasons he didn't get picked for England, despite quite a lot of Hull fans banging the drum for his inclusion, with Bennett going for Ratchford & Lomax, and eventually moving Widdop there.

Reasons being, he doesn't have either the handling ability or timing to chime in down the channels and make a pass, nor the positioning (as he OP mentioned) in defence. He has time on his side though, it can all be learnt.

As for the comment about him becoming the new "scapegoat", thanks for that contribution. We're well within our rights as fans to discuss a players flaws, providing it's fair, constructive and not personal.

not often i agree with you but you are spot on here.
Two poor displays against Wigan and Castleford but he was very good against St George and showed that an off the cuff player with a bit of pace can be very effective against Australian defence systems.
Doesnt help with Connor getting on his back regularly.

He's bounced back after stinkers before, will probably score a screamer or two this week. If not maybe a game at Donny will help him regain some confidence.

Shaul isnt the reason why our attack constantly breaks down. I've been banging on about this for years, but our attack is still too sideways. The way you create overlaps is by running in straight lines. Catch the ball, take a few steps forward to commit a defender. Then pass. We catch the ball, run in the general direction of the cornerflag, then pass. Its too easy to defend, the opposition just has to keep sliding and eventually we have run out of space and have to cut back inside.

As for his defensive positioning. He makes bad reads from time to time like all players do (he wasnt nearly as at fault for the Webster try as Minichiello was for example). But generally his positioning on kicks and his organising of the defensive line seems sound. Although its good to know we have so many experts on the finer details of the full back position.

As good as Shaul is in many facets of full back play, he clearly lacks in the attacking fullback stakes. If he was as good as we all think he is why was he not selected for England?

Yet Ratchford and Lomax were..even though Lomax wasn't first choice at Saints and Ratchford is a mistake machine. Even then they were moved aside for Widdop.

What do these three players have that Shaul does not? He does not create space or tries for the outside backs.

We cannot blame the whole team for this.

try assists 2017 - spot the odd one out:

Hardaker 18

Ratchford 12

Lomax 11

Tomkins 8 (didn't play till June)

Shaul 4

But it is the whole team. When Shaul catches the ball, the opposition either match us man for man or even have an extra man. That’s to do with the structure and what’s happening 1, 2, or 3 passes before. Shaul, I agree, isn’t the most creative of full backs but his job is made a hell of a lot harder by the attack structure.

Some unkind things said about Shaul on this thread. He’s been asked to take the ball up from acting half more this season. His one on one tackle in the second half on the Cas rampaging forward was absolute copy book. When he drops the ball, it’s a glaring mistake because he stands out more. People asking for him to be dropped is ludicrous. IMO.

you are right. Jamie Shaul is working very hard having to compensate for the loss of Houghton by taking a lot more runs from dummy half than he would normally.He had a great game against St George but the thread is about his positioning which does let him down at times.
I have said many times that if Jamie had a bit of Rankin in him with the natural ability to chime into the attacking line and produce the pass then he would no doubt be in the England squad.

Imagine how much stick he'd get if he hadn't scored the winning try in our first ever wembley win

"Chime" must be the most overused stevoism ever. It doesn't even mean anything to non stevo devotees

Great, one statistic. How about tries scored, metres gained, average gain per carry, clean breaks, tackle busts? Nobody denies that passing isn't his strong point and looking at the way the England team played his style doesn't fit. That doesn't make Shaul a bad player though.

Would you rather have Ratchford's 12 assists (a subjective stat) and 1 try or Shaul's 17 tries and 4 assists?
Or Tomkins less than productive 5.49 average gain against Shaul's 9.52?

Hardaker is the only one who doesn't have noticeable areas of weakness across his on field game and is the best all round on the field. Off it of course is a different story and would you really want him?

Shaul is not perfect by any means but his error rate is similar to the other leading full backs. Yes I would like him to continue to improve but the scapegoating going on here is ridiculous. Then again 3 years ago the reason for some poor attacking play by Hull was apparently solely down to Danny Houghton - you don't get the experts saying that now, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those experts are currently saying our attack is worse when he's missing.

This thread has escalated into something other than what I first mentioned. I haven't mentioned his link up play, as he offers us different things in attack. It was to do with his defensive positioning, standing to shallow to not allow him to react to a break (Marshall x 3 times, Webster at the weekend), and his positioning when defending our goal line - staying in the line, rather than defending the in goal. If you look at the McMeeken try from the weekend, Shaul should be shadowing the ball, he should be in line with the guy kicking the ball allowing him to get to the ball, but he is 5-10metres from where he needs to be:

[url=https://flic.kr/p/GDKFNC:3vhszqjs:3vhszqjs[/url:3vhszqjs[url=https

This isn't scapegoating, it is trying to see reasons why we are conceding tries so that we can win more rugby matches

Problem is when we score a try from Sneyd's boot it's a great kick, when we concede a try from a kick it's poor defending.

I agree with you about the positioning for Marshalls tries but The Webster try should have been stopped by Griffin who made a hopeless attempt to tackle him.
Shaul was alert to the McMeeken try and had set off to cover the kick but somehow tripped himself up in the in goal area otherwise he would have been able to clear the ball before it was touched down.
Have a look at the replay.

Simple - play him at hooker
He has all the attributes and sh*t off a stick darting through the A gap with a tired defence tackling our big forwards

I did enjoy that try against Saints from dummy half ... but no. I just couldn't cope with the loud complaining about his passing.

Shaul is a great player . But I noticed last night when he got the ball in the attacking line he spun around and went backwards.
He needs to be chime in the line and be more direct.

This isn't a new thing.

You really notice when a team has a good full back how much space they can create for the centre and winger. Shaul is like barry banks when he gets the ball. It's not all his fault as we tend to have no dummy runners and players just ship the ball aimlessly out to him without ever committing the defence. If we could improve this area we'd win the league in the next year or two IMO

Ben Barba is showing the rest of SL what a good fullback can bring.
Jamie is a great fullback but needs to be more direct.

I agree with your sentiments but----Ben Barba is showing the rest of SL what a great fullback can bring.
Jamie is a good fullback but needs to be more direct.

He needs to learn when to time his run, where he needs to run pre/post getting the ball and when to pass.
Open field play he's one of the top two FB in the country, linking up in the red zone, shocking.
As already mentioned his positioning on the line can be poor, too often he doesn't get to the play in time or is there to help out when a player crashing over from short range.
He's not learnt in those facets which is more concerning, he's been the first choice Hull FB pretty much from summer of 2013, he's 26 this summer and should have already identified where his weaknesses are and be working on it.
IF he does that then he'd be further up the pecking order for England, I just don't think he has it in him certainly not on the linking up in attack which at international level is more important than the scoots he makes.

Carlos MOM vs wire
Griffin 1 of the best v Leeds ( 1st game in his time here we've hit him with good early ball)
Connor makes stuff happen..behind Kelly of most x factor player
Radford has to make 3 go into 2 or 1 spends half a game warming the bench
the alternative is Connor at 1 allowing all 3 to play.
Of the 4 players on this season's form Shaul is the weakest by quite a bit

Needs to find some consistency, was great against Warrington and St George but poor in others.

He looks better when Abdul is at 13, as it gives us 3 pivots and allows Shaul to play his more natural game.