Scientific training makes discussion with 'normals' difficult, as I discovered on the Sin Bin. They have a lot more faith (

) than us in FACTs.

Btw, do you ever find yourself using terms like 'order of magnitude' and 'confounding factors' in normal conversation?

Well they were fatigued from minute one on Sunday then. Top players should not always need telling what to do and when to do it. Take Wilkin on Sunday he did a fantastic job and I don't for one minute think it was down to the coach. It was down to his willingness to play a new position and play to the strengths he has.

When we kick downfield we often have a leisurely jog up, there is no urgency in our playwhatsoever and that is down to players being too much in their comfort zone.

We have zero enthusiasm in the side other than for the odd player and our players like to do just enough rather than psuhing themselves.

Doesnt a team tempo come from training at a tempo? Doesnt motivation come from our coach? Our management structure clearly isnt inspirational.

I noticed that too. Its so frustrating to see a kick go to waste on a leisurely jog up and noone putting the opposition under any pressure.

You wait till Friday we will be put under enormous pressure in this department. This EFFORT will be the difference between the two teams !

I would agree to some extent but you seem to be saying that the players can't think or motivate themselves and are like kids that need to be told what to do.

It seems to me on here that we must not slg off the like of Horne, Radford and Tickle etc but we can have open season on Agar.

The coach does have to take responsibility without question but so do the players.

Kear - sacked
Sharp - sacked
Agar - to be sacked??

Yet some of the players still remain, maybe they are the root of the problem.

Spot on Paul.

Paul Spot on what I was saying to me dad on sunday.

Thorman has been very poor for three successive matches. Richard Horne was much better in all three. Can't believe similarities are being made.

I, personally, would drop him for the Derby game and play Lee at 7. He had a cracker against Rovers last season. Don't think Agar will do this though, but if he has another poor game on Friday, he must be dropped for the Saints game, or its just saying there is no competition for places and you'll get played every week whatever.

agree Kear - sacked (rightly so) Blunt - sacked (rightly so) Agar - sacked ?? was never going to be the answer

and yet Radford, King, Lee, G Horne etc.. etc.. are all still here ????

Season after season of mediocrity and yet we just keep extended their contracts ??? WTF is going on at Hull ??

Who's to blame ?? JR ?? KH ?? both ?? or is it just the fact that the fans will relentlessly spend £££££££'s and ££££££'s on season passes, merchandise and matchdays however ordinary our squad is ???

The board knows that it can consistently take the pi$$ out of us whilst watching the money roll in and we will undoubtedly keep coming back for more.

Some of the players who cant stay off the booze before matches are definately the problem in my eyes.
Sends out an awful message to everyone !!

Too many average players reatined and too many utility players who aren't exceptional in 1 position.

Average players = radford, g horne, lee, king, cusack (despite being good this year) to name a few

Need rid of some forwards as we have 2 many and need a specialist centre and scrum half as chris thorman is a good player but only a stop gap IMO

Also a new full back unless craig hall makes it his position this season.

Totally agree Paul. Shouldn't Sunday at least of been staying in the challenge cup and planning their route to Wembley, with a bit of heart and soul behind it regardless of who the coach is or was?

whos this then ? been nosey again

I don't know, but you are treading a very thin line with that one!

not me who started it though just intrigued sorry

Bare with me on this, but do you think Hull's reputation for playing local lads could be part of the problem? I must admit, I'm jealous by the amount of Hull lads in your squad, but I'm not jealous of who the players actually are.

I think Hull FC should be applauded for championing local talent, but an average local player is still just an average player. They said franchising would allow clubs to play more local players but judging by what a lot of your are saying on here, fans aren't willing to see a slip in performances for the sake of playing local talent (which is understandable) and especially if it's causing Hull FC to lose grip on being one of the UK's top clubs.

most of the same players coulden't be bothered in 2007 when we had Catalan in the quarter finals at home either, and Wigan would have been beatable in the semi. Yet they gave another half hearted display that day.

It's actually a fair point and something I have thought for a while. The number of Hull-born players currently representing GB/England sort of backs this up.

If we don't exceed their intensity we will lose. If we do we have enough players to take advantage and win. It's that simple.

I totally disagree. If the Australians and non Hull players in the squad were totally outplaying them then ok, but the fact of the matter (Manu aside) is that they're not!

I think the general point you are making has some merit. Whether Hull ultimately gain as a result of tightening restrictions on non home grown talent remains to be seen. But in terms of pure player quality you may have a point.

If you say so

Nobody with any sense is using Thorman as a scapegoat or really slagging him off, all people are saying is what most people thought all along that Thorman is a very very average 7, he is doing a job for us in the short term as there was really nobody else in our price range available. He would make decent utility player in my opinion but hes not top 6 material, as a halfback anyway.

Agreed, well, until the utility player bit, I'm a bit sick and tired of them.

Lets face it, Horne isn't a top 6 half back either, we're a team of averages, the only "word class" thing at FC is the fans, and the spin from the board.

Hey wash your mouth out !!!!!!!!

Don't you know that we have a grade A license and that we've been to 3 finals in 4 years ????

I do because I heard James Rule mention it somewhere