On paper there is a lot of offload ability in the forwards.Backing up is a major area for improvement and should be a priority for Radford to work on as none of our halves have shown any ability to back up a runner.
Shaul should benefit but we need the players to be much more alert to offloading and backing up a runner.

Back row is exceptional but our interchange props aren't great and we have no real back up option at hooker (If houghton gets injured early on we're fubar'd) Half backs and 3/4's are nowhere near top 4 quality. wire, cas and les cats all finished above us this season and have strengthened. salford have recruited well and will be better, as will wakefield. If their halfs stay fit then rovers will likely have a better season too so even making the 8 isn't a given

Interchange props not great, sorry but which other teams have 5 props of the overall calibre of Ellis (if the rumour is true of him playing there), Watts, Green, Bowden & Taylor. If we have Green & Watts to start with say Ellis & Taylor or Taylor & Bowden coming on how the heck is that weak. our pack is as good as it gets, sure if you had another £300k on the salary cap you could accquire two more top notch props but that's not how the rules are and Green & Bowden are not the worst props in SL by any stretch, nor should they be playing together at the same time unless we have devestating injuries.
That's not to mention the young lads coming through.

8 watts
9 Houghton
10 ellis
11 manu
12 mini
13 green

14 Washy
15 Taylor
16 pritchard
17 feka
Is an incredibly strong starting pack and bench. Also a bench (barring washbrook who is more functional) capable to change the momentum of a game

That's if elis plays prop and stays fit. Just as likely we'll start with watts and taylor and have green/bowden/feka interchanging as last year and suddenly we're a lot weaker up front. I guess radford could change his strategy but it's unlikely

So Saints finished 4th, and Huddersfield 3rd but on the same points. Using your logic, our squad has overtaken both of these teams and should finish above them? I'm sorry to seem the pessimist, but I think that's absolute nonsense. We have either the 5th, 6th or 7th best overall squad in SL, and if we finished in the top 4 it would be a monumental achievement.

Bumpy wrote "Radford has got to show us that he has progressed, that he understands and is capable to instil the on field discipline, the mental fortitude to not fold when the chips are down, to be able to out-think the opposition not just use battering ram tactics, to be able to motivate the players to break themselves every time they play (not just a we need to bounce back performance), to get the players to be switched on from minute one to minute 80, to trust in the youth when we have injuries and not bring in substandard players or play people out of position, THAT is where we have been lacking."
I tend to agree with most of what is said, I am by far a Radford basher but I think 5th would be a creditable finish, top 4 would be massive.

we ve got to be far better at home next season,away form apart from wakefield and Salford,wasnt to bad,with a double against sts and rovers and good wins at warrington and Huddersfield.the form at kc was appaling.

IMO

5th would be a benchmark finish in the League and be within 2 points of 4th. Anything beyond that would be a bonus.

Keeping the players fit is the key to this. Hopefully as run of good fortune injury wise and the addition of Paul Hatton can help with this.

Regarding the debate about Adbull. Granted he looks a little heavy. Now I don't know if its his natural build or he is carrying a little too much, but we saw the transformation in Feka from his Salford / French Union days to his physique now. Perhaps an intense pre season would change the mind of some regarding Abdull, as personally I think he is the off the cuff type player the team are missing.

Thanks for your response Knocker and some interesting points made. I apologise for seeing your earlier post as a Top 4 prediction. This post made far more sense to me.

I do still think that it will be too much of an ask to reach Top 4. I do think that the squad we have put together is our strongest squad in years both in terms of playing ability and depth so do think we can finish higher up in the table. But as I mentioned in my earlier post, and others have also mentioned, we are not the only team to have improved our squad so I don't know whether it has improved enough to beat other teams to a Top 4 spot or even to simply challenge for a Top 4 spot. Time will tell and I will have my fingers crossed. Regardless of whether this happens or not I will consider it a successful season providing we look like we're moving in the right direction.

I didn't mean to suggest that the likes of Shaul, Logan etc were "shoddy". There's a lot of talent and potential there but I just feel that, on paper, the forwards look better and that the balance isn't quite right. I agree with what you say about the coaching elements that need to be improved on but it's also down to what the players do on the pitch. Getting up the field wasn't an issue last year but what we did once we was up there was a problem at times. That to me isn't just a coaching issue but down to the players abilities in those situations. So whilst it is going to be great seeing players like Frank The Tank charging up the field and terrorising the opposition it will all be for nothing if we can't convert that territory and possession into points. My main fear is that it we will see a higher quality version of what we got last year but ultimately with the same frustrating results.

As I said in my earlier post though I hope I am wrong there but it is a concern for me. It sounds like we are going to be working on our finishing skills in pre-season which is promising and I am hopeful our improved forward line will create more opportunities for the back line to strike and give Sneyd, Pryce and Abdull more space to control things from the halves.

Totally agree Doc....

Our constant problem is our attack execution 10 yards from the opposition try line, too static,no imagination,no cohesion etc..

For mine, we should have used the Westerman fee/salary to attract an attack coach.

I have my doubts we will improve in this area... unfortunately..

I agree our attack may still be a concern for next season.

For me, the only areas for optimism are...

1. Hopefully Sneyd improves and plays more consistently
2. Radford with more experience?!
3. Abdul may impress at 6 or 13
4. Better pack laying down a platform?

Sneyd has already proved in the past he has the tools in his locker (when he was at Cas) but as highlighted previously, on the face of it we don't look like we have made massive strides regarding attacking strategy

You can't carry an off the cuff player if he doesn't pull his weight (no pun intended) elsewhere. The way a 35 year old kevin sinfield ghosted around him then left him for dead next season isn't good enough at this level

To state we have the same quality squad as per last year compared to other teams is just not accurate, if you can't see the improvements we've made in the squad through the signings, extra experience of the younger players coming through, another years experience for the coach (he's on a learning curve beyond any other SL coach if you didn't know) being indicators of how we [ishould[/i be better by comparison then there's no hope is there?

Just because you disgree with something doesn't make it "absolute nonsense", but that in itself is very telling, that clearly says to me you think there is no possibility at all, you said 'absolutely' meaning without exception, ergo that makes you a pessimist if you have stated in essense that we have no chance and yet you counterbalance that with saying we have the 5th best squad, when did having Xth best squad define how a season goes as an absolute anyway?

As I said, my prediction was 5th because I don't have that much faith in Lee Radford's ability to get the best out of the players he has, I just think he hasn't got the tactical nous nor man management skills/awareness of how people tick to get us to our potentialt with the squad we have. But as Radford and others have said if we turn small losses into wins that jumps us up the table, of course every team wants to do that but why is that so unsurmountable?
We lost 8 games by 6 points or less with lets be honest a shocking try scoring/attacking record for most of the season, if we turn around 6 wins out of those 8 close losses including one each against Hudds & Saints would see us third.

But according to you it's absolutely nonsense to think we can close a 1-6 point difference in 6 games and we have no chance of making the play offs?
We should be looking to be in the play offs and displacing Hudds, Saints, Wigan AND Leeds, that surely has to be the target, think small and you'll never succeed.

Here's some imponderables
Will Ellis be the player he was at his best last season or will injuries and another year on the clock take their toll?
Will Manu be better than Westerman was last year let alone the year before? Can he find some form , he's not shown anything for some time?
Will big Frank be as good as he was last year? Similar to Ellis , will he have another big year in him?
Will Taylor be an upgrade on Paea?
Will Mini be able to do it all again? Another player that is getting on and at times looked knackered last year.
Will Sneyd become the player we thought he was?
Is Pryce past it? He started last year really well but faded badly.
Can Abdull and Logan kick on? Can Tuimavave play centre?
Will Houghton improve his game management?
Will one of the new or last year's stars be able to galvanise and lead the team and find something from somewhere at that point in the game when you look at the team in a difficult spell and think where is it going to come from? So many times last year that happened and you knew nothing was coming.
If enough of those get positive answers then things could be really good but it wouldn't take many where the outcome is negative to put us in trouble. Luck will play a huge part in respect of how bodies hold up and who gets injured because for all the talk of depth we like everyone else can't afford the sort of depth that can be needed when injuries hit.
As usual at this time of year I think we have something to look forward to but at the same time am really worried that it could all go horribly wrong , just like that. Not because that's just sport but because it's what seems to happen to us and then people say , well what did you expect with aging forwards , an inexperienced half , no cover at hooker and no strike centre?

Wow!!! You've just killed of any optimism I had!!

will I win the lottery ? will leeds win the sl ? will we beat rovers ? will I meet carole Kirkwood ? will it rain tomorrow ? will I have fishnchips for supper ? will ELO tour again ? is elvis living on bransholme ?

It was probably the structures the coaching staff had in place at Cas and the players he had around him playing as as a unit that made Sneyd look good.
His goal kicking average was also a lot better but maybe more to do with more tries being scored nearer to the posts.
His goal kicking from wide out for us was poor,that said i like him as a player,tries hard and never afraid to try something a bit different.

Agree, hence my point about a big pre season.

In comparison, it could be argued that an ageing Leon Pryce ghosting past Terry Campese leaving hi for dead etc, but I doubt rovers would even consider dropping a fit TC.

I think maybe abdul ate campese at some point late last season

If Pritchard is fit he'll tear holes all over the field. He really is an outstanding forward with great hands. Of all the NRL signings in SL next year he's the absolute standout, followed by Tupou at Wakefield. I hope you get to see him at his best.

Latest gossip....

Leigh might have to release centre Tom Armstrong & hooker Bob Beswick ,to sign Rangi Chase..

Wouldnt mind both.. TBH...

Regarding potential age and fitness concerns of the older players I'm hopeful that our depth will allow us to manage their game time quite well. With Ellis and Mini I think we have been guilty in the past of playing them when they've been carrying a knock or looked in need of a rest because they're big players and we've needed their experience, talent and guidance on the field. Hopefully the arrival of players like Frank the Tank and Manu, plus our younger players being a year older and having more experience under their belts, will allow us to do a fair bit of rotation as and when needed which should hopefully keep players fitness's up for the full season. Obviously you can't predict when and if a player will come a cropper with a serious injury (as you say, that's sport and you need a bit of luck on this front) but with the depth on offer I think we should be able to limit the usual "injury crisis" providing that we make use of that depth throughout the season and don't just rely on it when someone picks up an injury.

Regarding the halves comment, I'm hopeful that with what looks like a dominating pack that our halves will have more space and freedom to express themselves. Can't disagree with the comments on hooker and centre. Is Washy our cover at hooker now? Hopefully Tuimavave and Fonua will provide the strike we need or we'll add that strike with an additional signing.

I'd take both.

Its a good job our support play is second to none