I'm genuinely interested in what evidence people have for thinking that Abdull can replace Westerman right now?

Have you seen Abdull's defence?

Yes of course I've seen his defence, and I agree it's not as good as JW, but I'd also suggest currently JA looks like he would bring more attacking threat than JW.

Overall, all things considered I think JW is marginally better right now, based on experience, but nothing a run of games wouldn't change for JA.

My original point is whether or not JW is worth keeping assuming a big fee could be had, when JA could come in and quickly become a solid replacement.

If you owned the club and were losing money hand over fist, isn't it a question you would ponder? I would.

If we lost Westy then Abdull still wouldn't play 13, Washbrook would.

No offence to Danny but I hope we keep Westerman.

Are people advocating that Abdul at 19 and only just on a run of playing half should now just simply slip into the middle to replace a 30/50 tackles and a 15/25 carries a match guy? On the basis abdull would be better in attack. Not after that workload he won't. In fact probably couldn't handle it. Takes a few years to condition to that week in week out.
Only way I see it working if we was to sell JW would be start manu at 13 and introduce abdull off the bench during games and then spell munu among the other back rows. Abdull could also spell Pryce within a game. All could be a struggle though if interchanges get reduced
As mentioned above. Some games Danny Houghton would do an 80 so Washy would just go in at 13

I think it's as simple as his face doesn't fit (with some FC fans).

It's a waste of time having opinions about players as you just get jumped all over and a decent debate just goes down the pan.Westerman is 13 for this season and maybe beyond,who knows a bid may come in and we may accept it and have to adjust to rectify this,we have options at 13 with Washbrook,Abdull,Whiting and at a push Mina or Manu.We have lost bigger and better players than Westerman so let's just see what happens.

Everybody can have an opinion, you can't then complain if it's challenged though, that's what a forum is about.

No doubt we've lost better players than Westerman, that's not really the debate.

Not done enough to justify keeping him, in my opinion.

He had a heavy price tag, a large wage and was touted as a big thing. I haven't seen any fans of other clubs coveting his signature either.

That speaks more than OPTA stats.

Problem is that people come on here and slate the player, then when they're challenged with facts and statistics they roll out the 'you can't have a decent debate on here anymore'. Well, make a sound argument and you'll get a debate. It's not difficult.
We've even now got someone trying to say he makes more errors and mistakes than he's marked down for. It's becoming ridiculous.

I put my opinion about Westerman on and accepted the opinions and replies of others but some other posts are not opinion based,it's just what I say goes and your wrong and enough examples of it on here anyway.So putting a laughing face is a balanced opinion????

Not his fault.





Why mention something you can't possibly know?



By who?



That obviously means he wouldn't be wanted by any other club then!





So you list things that are beyond a players control to knock him down about? Sums it all up.

You have no idea what he's being paid FFS.

If that's aimed at me then admit it,nobody has trotted out stats to me but I read them on here and they was surprising to say the least,Wezterman may be suffering from not being the main pivot now and gone back to the Aussie style 13,where last season as the main pivot and ball handler,he was playing his more natural game and got England reconnection,but this year,he hasn't been as good and that where opinions about his consistency come in

The problem here is you think the ones that are 'pro' Westerman' are the ones who think like that.

Jimmy's post got the reply it deserved. To suggest JA is just 'a run of games' from being able to replace Westerman is laughable.

How do you know it's laughable???...are you at training everyday,seeing how his fitness levels are,how his conditioning is going,are you a member of the coaching staff??????..........if they think he is ready then the coaching staff will put him in.

If it was aimed at you I'd have quoted you!

I don't disagree with what you've said here and it's been said by me and others too. But I don't see how you can accuse him of being inconsistent when even you've said his role has changed this year. You can see in his defensive stats that he's been consistently fantastic for us, but his role has changed in attack (which isn't his fault) and he's being slated for not being as influential!

I've watched Abdull for years now, he's miles away from replacing 30-50 tackles and 20-30 carries every game. I don't think you need to be a member of the coaching staff to see it either.

He still slots in at first receiver plenty of the time, but with the arrival/emergence of Sneyd, Pryce & Abdull, I imagine he's been asked to carry a different role in the side than last season.

This isn't aimed at you specifically Baldy, but our fans are guilty of having their favourites and having preconceptions about others. Westerman is one of those who falls into the latter category. Barring a couple of nightmare games this season, he's been fantastic for the past 18 months. Prior to that he was moved all over the place, halves, back row, back to the halves etc.

Why anybody wouldn't be bothered to see Westerman (our only England International, a player about to enter his prime years, a key, stable part of our team etc), leave the club is beyond me.

Holding his transfer fee against him is also quite bizarre.

i think on the defensive side of it, when he (westerman) has missed a tackle/s (only a thought, I have no stats to back it up) is highlighted more, because it has led to a try, on a series of events leading to a try etc.

I know sometimes at a game someone breaks through the line with ease and,you will think 'who the Feck was that, trying to make that tackle' then when you look on sky or big screen, its highlighted there.

what im trying to get at is, maybe people think his defence is so poor, because these 'missed tackles' etc come at big moments in a game, were errors from players are spotted, picked up on etc.

I'm not westys biggest fan, nor do I knock him as a player. I can see (as many probably can) he has all the attributes there to be a really great and top class player. but, because his roll has changed this season to last season, we haven't seen exactly what he can do. he is now adapting to a new style, a style that may not suit him now...or ever.

I also think, that next season, he will be asked to go back to his original style of play, which got him his England call up.

I have simply pointed out the massive flaw when people throw around stats.

Who do you think caused the error if a hooker throws a shocking pass around the ankles to the ball carrier and he knocks it on ?

Anybody watching the game will say the hooker caused the error however OPTA will mark down the ball carrier for the error.

Make some good points and I admit I'm not a great Westerman lover and accept that he was shunted all over the park under Agar and had to play the Aussie style 13 under Gentle,last season was his best for us and maybe he isn't hitting those heights as he knew he never had a threat to his place until now.On a side note,I always thought he had captain wrote all over him

I know what you're saying, but don't think it will suddenly ramp up the amount of errors he makes. In Houghton's case though... I also spoke to somebody once who actually does the stat work and he said even if a player doesn't get a hand on him, if he attempts a tackle it will be marked down as missed.

It would have an impact though. I like Westerman at 13 and agree with you about Abdul not been ready to do the workload Westerman does.

My main issue is the way the people throw around these stats on here and claim they can't be challenged despite their obvious flaws. People have even started using props metres per carry to back up arguments even though any team would sacrifice a extra 1-2 metres so they could win the floor and control the ruck.