Thought Seymour had played a fair bit at 6? Could he just shift there if Ellis played? Either way, Horne is likely to be far better playing alongside a recognised halfback, so I reckon it's too early to write him off just yet.

What actual evidence do you have that Horne was done any favours and/or played against the wishes of the various coaches?

Just because something doesn't coincide with your wishes or opinion doesn't [inecessarily[/i make it wrong or some sort of fit-up.

what evidence do you have that he wasn't?

just because you're a moderator doesn't [inecessarily[/i make your opinion more valid.

IIRC you're right about Seymour, and that would indeed be an option if Horne doesn't hack it. I was just questioning the suggested straight swap of Ellis for Horne.

I think you're right also about Horne playing alongside a (hopefully) settled and experienced halfback partner. And if for any reason he doesn't step up to the mark we have a number of options. It just amuses me that so many people are ready to bin him without even waiting to see how he - or indeed any of his rivals for the spot - shapes up next season.

You want me to prove a negative?



Oh - and I'm not the one making the claim. You know how that works.


Feel free to point out where I even so much as suggested that it did.

You really need to get over that obsession of yours.

Since I have been back watching the team Horne's been the only recognized #6 we had so how you can say he has been done favours is beyond me. We have had no alternative but to play him there, even if he wasn't 100% fit.

no obsession here Kosh, just an opinion.

I was more referring to how we never seemed to be looking for another 6 regardless of how Horne played, and how sentimentality/cheapness seemed to override form

exactly my point

In first grade NRL, Seymour has started 81 games at scrum half, and 31 games at stand off- suggesting he can probably do well in either position. He played the majority of his 2nd grade football at stand off too.

Surprisingly (to me anyway), Horne has started 125 games at scrum half, 115 at stand off, 31 at Fullback and 15 at centre.

Whatever your opinion of either of them, neither are lacking experience in either of the halfback positions!

Personally I think that had more to do with the fact that since Cooke left we've been struggling to find a regular 7 without trying to look for a 6 at the same time. The only decision you could reasonably label as sentimental for me would be the length of contract he was offered when returning from that neck injury.

I'd much rather see Turner continue his development & decent form at the back end of last season than having Martin given the 3 shirt.

Decent form against lesser teams but went missing versus the bigger teams.....wouldnt offer a new contract when his is up.

in a team that went missing for the big games all season (bar 1 or 2) that doesn't say anything really does it?
The kid has potential, he's had nothing but changes on his wing (when he was picked), he's still only 22 and frankly I'd rather we kept Turner over a fair few others.

The signing of Martin will help Turner. If Turner has what it takes he will fight for his place and make it impossible for Gentle to leave him out. When Gleeson 'left' Turner had no competition for his place and that isn't good for him. If he is good enough at centre - and the jury is still out on that - then it is Turner who will prove it and no one else.

FWIW I think Gentle may see him more as a back rower/loose forward than a centre and he may get opportunities in the pack going forward. Personally I don't think he's creative enough for a ball playing 13 but does have the physique for second row.

I agree, he had a decent season, and improved as the season progressed. He showed us what he can do near the line and scored a few impressive tries. I hope Gentle has it in his plans to develop him further.

Agree with that. Unless Crooks has a wonder breakthrough season, I'd like to see both Martin and Turner out and replaced with just 1 good quality centre with Crooks/Cunningham providing backup (I'd still like to see Whiting try and put weight on for the back row).

He played at centre constantly from round 17 through to the end of the season, 10 out of those 13 games with the same winger, Whiting. When it came to the big games he still seemed to get caught standing and pointing/waving at his outside as try scorers went by, or drawn too far infield leaving Whiting with one-on-ones in too much space for him to deal with against quicker players IMO. He also managed to make Ablett look a class act threequarter 2 weeks running.

I'm personally of the opinion that the defensive structure/positioning out wide is influenced much more by the centre than the winger, and ours/his is shocking. That's another reason why I find it all the more unfair that Sharp copped so much flak and was left out in the cold instead.

So you are saying that an inexperienced 22year old centre under Agar's regime is the reason we shipped so many tries that side..fair enough
However Whiting made a lot of errors on the wing last season, that's not to say that Sharp wouldn't have either and that those errors weren't influenced by his centre's lack of positional awareness but lets put into perspective with the rest of the squad performance last year and he shouldn't be the one shown the door.
I still wanted Sharp there tbh but given Agar couldn't coach a bunch of 5 year olds meant Sharps' confidence was knocked about a lot IMO.

No, I didn't mean it to sound like I was only blaming Turner, that would be grossly unfair. It's also easy to see that he is not the only issue as the right hand side has had problems both when he doesn't play and since before he was even here.

I was trying to get at the fact that IMO he is more of a defensive weakness than Sharp who paid the penalty for poor showings, whereas I actually think that Sharp is more worth persevering with.

Turner has improved in attack but not enough in defence, a similar story to Hall before him.

And I don't think he should be the [ione[/i shown the door, but [ione of the several[/i (and we have offloaded some of them this close season). The fact that there have been worse performances from other players is not a good enough reason on it's own to retain anyone.

the one hope i have is that westerman plays 13 otherwise we will just end up losing him to leeds when sinfield chucks it

i remember when ellery hanley first played for bradford he was hit and miss then look what happened turner is the future of hull

So are you comparing Turner to Hanley. I dont ever remember him been much of miss at bradford. I do remember him getting 7 tries against us in 1 season 4 of em at boulevard. turner would do well to get 7 in season against good sides

Turner can only dream he'l be that good.Sorry but if we want to be serious contenders in 2013 then the likes of Turner have to go...we will have Whiting and Crooks will be better for a season with the 1st team.

If it's true that Agar is the problem with al of our players then Turner's defence can be improved. He's a big lad aged 22 who knows his way to the try line. Let's give him a chance eh? Surely one of Martin's key roles is to help him develop as a centre.