Have you actually seen any of these lads play??

Are you suggesting filling the back line with young, inexperienced players is a bad idea?

no, just wondering what you are basing ur knowledge on that they are good enough yet to be thrown into SL.

gonna remain positive,we got an awsome pack and sum good young lads in the backs,come on u ulllaaaaaa

unfortunatly that doesnt win trophies...we need fit players for a start

i think if we can get our best team on the park we will do ok,just think theres to much doom and gloom spoken, am hopefull whatever people think when the boys run out we will get behind them,

Err... I would say it's a bad idea, yeah!

You should never have to have a completely inexperienced back line at all. This is why you blood them around experienced players, so they can learn off them. Chucking them in because we have to, and around other inexperienced players, will only stump their development as they will be put under a lot of pressure and have no experienced players around to guide them. It's a huge confidence knocker.

Craig Hall's confidence in development was shot to pieces by playing him in positions he was never going to succeed in (him wanting to play there is irrelevant, the coach should know better). His abilities that he did have didn't come out in the end due to this lack of confidence, as he wanted to play safe. You could say the same about a number of our youngsters over the last few years. We've only really developed Briscoe as a top player in the last 5 years.

I never said anything about Washbrook's ability to cover hooker. I said that if the four mentioned players were to get injured, Washbrook would have to play in the halves most likely with Turner, leaving us with no replacement hooker, and having to rely on either moving Briscoe to the centre with Lyne on the wing (6 appearances, 1 sub), or including at centre Jack Briscoe (0 games), Liam Kent (0 games), Liam Cunningham (1 sub appearance) or Danny Nicklas (3 sub appearances), and then having to put one of them at full back as well. Our back-up cover for the three-quarter line has one established player in it (who covers other positions), and 5 players with only 6 starts and 5 sub appearances between them! We are DESPERATELY short.

In fact, just to emphasise this point, I hope this hits home...

After our "named" 17 in our squad, there is only Jordan Turner and Sam Moa who have had regular SL action. The rest are the five players I mentioned: Reece Lyne (6 appearances, 1 sub), Jack Briscoe (0 games), Liam Kent (0 games), Liam Cunningham (1 sub appearance) and Danny Nicklas (3 sub appearances), and then having to put one of them at full back as well. Our back-up cover for the three-quarter line has one established player in it (who covers other positions), and 5 players with only 6 starts and 5 sub appearances between them!

Take a look at Leeds' players past the 17 mark:
Luke Burgess, Kallum Watkins, Weller Hauraki, Chris Clarkson, Jay Pitts, Ben Jones-Bishop, Paul McShane. That's 7 players with far more experience. They then have a further EIGHT players with little to no SL experience.

That's the team that finished FOURTH.

one thing not mentioned here is the negative effect of having few established players for the youngsters to be training and playing with. The reason they are usually drip fed into a team is to help them develop, not to expect them to develop there and then on their own.

Some very good points, obviously Agar must have the confidence in these young lads cos i can see them getting plenty of game time this season. But its a whole lot different from playing a pub team like Donny to full on SL, everyone been harping on about Niklas been used as cover, i think he is a great prospect, very good player but at the moment i think he would get smashed to bits in SL,

Exactly. Some people are under the impression that all players need is a bit of game time (these are the same people that say we should get rid of all the Aussies to make England a better team because we'll have more players getting SL games. Yes, they'll get more games, but they won't develop as well!).

Just a few more comparisons for our depth versus other teams:

Wigan's players from squad number 18 onwards:
Amos Roberts, Eamon O'Carrell, Lee Mossop, Liam Farrell, Chris Tuson, Karl Pryce (who is now on loan at Quins) with experience, plus 4 others with very little.

Saints:
Matty Ashurst, Andrew Dixon, Johnny Lomax, Jamie Foster, plus 8 with little/no experience.

Warrington:
Ryan Atkins, David Solomona, Mike Cooper, Lee Mitchell, Matty Blythe, plus 3 others.

Bradford:
Sean Ainscough, Gareth Raynor, James Donaldson, plus four others with about 7 games experience, and a couple with none in SL.

Hull KR (boo!):
Josh Hodgson, Craig Hall, Michael Vella, Willie Mason, Ben Cockayne, and 6 with little experience.


These are the other likely play-off teams, and they all have A LOT more to offer in terms of depth than we do with our 2 experienced players (well, three if you include Mike Burnett, but we're stacked in back rowers), and 7 (just checked the website, there's Chris Green and Ben Crooks as well) with 6 starts and 5 sub appearances between them.

3 injuries, and we're down to using kids with next to nothing in terms of experience. Unless we get EXTREMELY lucky with injuries, or we unearth some amazing talent from the off (which are both extremely unlikely to happen at ANY Super League club, let alone us!) then I reckon we're going to struggle massively in some games.

Has he got confidence in them? Or has he just not been able to get anyone else in? It's like he's gone after certain people with confidence that we'd sign them, then they've not materialised, and now we're left with nothing because he's not been looking for a back up.

People scoffing at the thought of signing players like Blaymire and Obst need to look at our depth and the depth of other clubs before turning their noses up at them.

The reason thus far we have brought no one else in is very simple really
All the agents and clubs involved know we are a cash rich club and as such have all played the game with ridiculous figure being banded about , also two of the targets were happy to stay at their clubs and fight for a place in their own first team, unfoirtunately there simply isnt a whole glut of players available is there ....
AND should we discuss Obst I would be more than happy to have a player who has been ultra hardworking and a stand out player for a very average team so it makes you wonder what he could be like as the playmaker in a quality squad like ours???

Oh and dont forget whilst everyone has written us off for being light and so on... SL is fit you know and will be there in Cardiff!!! AND RH may be too so lets expend energy worrying if they get injured not before!!
whos to say they wont both play every match this year uninjured??
No one knows , and if they do get injured we already have decent cover so hence why the club isnt panicking because they dont have too

Do we? Who make up this decent cover?

The only players I can see who have played half back are:
Washbrook (a loose forward, who we've seen play SO plenty of times and know he isn't good enough in that position, and will also be used as a rotational hooker, so if we move him then we change the balance of the squad),
Turner (who has only started 6 games at stand off in his entire career),
Whiting (who has only started 5 games at stand off in his entire career, and is our starting centre, so it will change the balance of the squad),
Tansey (who has only started 4 games at SO and 1 at SH in his entire career. The ONLY person in the squad outside of Long and Horne to have any experience at SH (1 game!) and is our starting FB, meaning we'd have to move Whiting, and someone else into centre, ruining the balance of the squad).

Decent cover? I know we all like to look at the positives, but decent cover is just lying to yourself. We don't realise how lucky we've been to have at least someone that can play all over the park in Berrigan over the last few years. If there was ever a year we needed to be injury free, this is it.

100% correct,

I totally disagree that is has any thing to do with us being a so called rich club....If this was the case every player would have their agents tapping FC and our squad would resemble Wigans!

i think it's more a case of ''we will only pay what we think you deserve''.which in another way,is right!!

I came on here thinking it was a rumours' thread. My bad.

Correct ...What we think!..I bet if Rangi Chase was available last season the price would have been less than what we have paid for Longy..

This is my only qualm with our club we do not appear to get it right, some players (ideally younger ones) are worth paying the extra dosh for...

didn't o'carroll,mossop,farrell and tuson gain virtually all their experience last season and in doing so played a significant role in wigan,s best season for years,get yourself more positive and show some belief in our younger players

Rangi Chase and Aarron Murphy(fb/w) from wakey and i would be happy.we all know what chase can do,but the young lad from wakey plays both fullback and wing,and the times i saw him last season,looked a fine prospect.safe hands,pretty quick,young and British.

O'Carroll and Mossop have been around for a while. Farrell debuted last year, and Tuson has been at the club since 2008, and played for them then and also on loan at Castleford.

I have faith in all our players, but not blind faith. Only a foolish person would put all their faith in players with the experience our back-up has. No other SL club with title aspirations has.

so what is the reason we didnt get any of the players we spoke to ??

westerman is a very good half when needed !!! and all part of the plan!!
and again it seems everyone has forgotten that long is not NOT injured at present so why the hysteria from so many is beyond me