Opposite problem in fact. Permanently welded to my reading specs nowadays.

Your mother did warn you

I do agree with you there. The only issue i have is that i think people are a bit crazy if they expected last year to be 'our year'. Many people on here, (i think you also) and myself included, wanted to finish in the playoffs. We hoped for more but i was just happy to see a marked improvement.

I genuinely think the performances will come good but maybe failure is in the back of the players minds and slowly we will get that confidence back. i was at the KC last night and alot of the players and coaching staff made alot of sense. So much attention to detail goes in that you don't realise how difficult it is to win games and how much work goes in. Lasty, Agar and Webbo have so much to do and spoke so 'in depth' about their roles it's hard to appreciate the jobs they do!!

Fact is last season was an improvement on the season before


Fact is we are not good enough to win super league


Fact is the sooner the people spending their hard earned realise this the better

That's [ishort[/i sight.

Allegedly.

If the BOD know the fans aren't happy yet do nothing then what would you suggest that fans do?

I thought it was blindness. Lucky you stopped when you did

The real question is "why aren't we good enough to win super league" given that we probably have the 2nd biggest income of any club?

...and what would you suggest the BOD do??

Sack the coach on the say so of a minority of fans?

I suggest they sack him because it's obvious he isn't good enough but they're not going to do that while the ££££'s keep rolling in

and you think that a boycott of season pass sales will fix that??

In my experience Argentinian beef is unsurpassed anywhere on the planet

I honestly don't see where is 'it's obvious he's not good enough' talk comes from!! Our problems run deeper than just the coach. I've said before, it will take time to correct the problems of previous bad management, and sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to come back up to the top. This is where the fans come in to support the club as much as possible. We are on the up, the players (ie Joe Westerman last night) know it's a massive club (and came because it's a massive club), but know there has been bad management before, they know we have the ability to win things but it's a longer process then saying 'go out there lads, play amazing rugby and sweep up the competition'.

As i said, alot more detail goes into the game than i imagined and i think Rich does an excellent job. We are yet to be proved right or wrong until his long term plan starts to come to fruition but i'll back him until we go backwards under his management!!

This 'previous bad management' line from the club goes way too far IMO. It is a fact that under Kear and Sharp we made some really poor decisions in terms of recruitment and retention, ultimately leading to us having far too many average/utility players in the squad and not enough quality individuals. Despite this, in 2005 we won the CC, in 2006 we got to the GF, in 2007 we finished 4th and won a playoff game before narrowly going out to Wigan. Those are the facts, anything else is just rhetoric from the club.

I really don't think things were anywhere near as bad as what is made out, certainly not to the extent that we needed to endure 2 1/2 years of this dross under Agar to try and 'rectify' it.

Not what I said. I said anyone who wants to see pass sales drop and the club to lose money in order to make some silly point about Agar is stupid. If people are bored of the rugby and don't want to buy a pass then that is entirely their choice and would not be labelled stupid by me.

My dad has several reasons, partly bored with rugby in general and also personal reasons.

I struggle to see the difference though?

Whether people are doing it with the purposeful intention of hoping to force the board to sack Agar or whether they are simply so unhappy with the rugby he serves up that they don't buy another pass... it amounts to the same thing since both groups are likely to return once Agar has been dismissed?

So now you're suggesting that our Marketing is wrong (the thing we are the best at)?

Maybe for 2011 we should use the slogan: Season of failure, come see us lose week in, week out..... FOR CASH!!! Everyone is confident of a good season, we alll want to do well and there's no reason why we can't but to 'Expect' it is very different. This isn't some football/rugby management game, it's not easy.

If someone is unhappy with the rugby and does not want to renew their pass then fine. If people are wishing for a couple of thousand people to not renew to make a point then I think that's silly. How onearther we will find the players and coach to help us play attractive rugby with less money?

Each person should make their own choice on how they spend their time and money.

I have made the point about 10 times and won't be doing so again, I am completely bored by the whole negative vibe that some fans have, if you don't like it then don't watch.

People are seriously deluded....

Do you honestly think Rich Agar sits there on a matchday and says to his players 'Right lads, go out the and play as crap as you can. Don't worry about winning cos i don't care. In fact, i want the fans to hate me so please drop as many balls as possible'..

Agar got us to a final in 2008 remember and 6th place (which people were happy with pre 2010) in 2010, we did play better rugby last year and i am certain it will be better again this year!!

You are confusing 'not listening' with 'not doing what I want'.

I should have known not to try and engage with you as all you do is exaggerate and over-simplify, like your ludicrous claim earlier that those who thought it would be a good thing if pass sales fall 'want to bankrupt the club to teach them a lesson'



Just to humour you, the point I was making was that you can't on the one hand make a big show of a season being a 'Season of Promise' holding dinners in it's name and such like and then argue that people were 'crazy' to think last year would be our year. I happen to agree with you that it was crazy to think we were going to win anything last year but I'm sure some fans will have bought into it. And yes the marketing was wrong! It no doubt created more interest last year but it was short-sighted as when the inevitable failure came it made it look all the worse, which could well have a detrimental effect on interest this year.

If you're saying that the majority of fans wouldn't sack Agar if it was down to them then you're talking rubbish.

Again 'over-simplify and exaggerate' is your tactic of choice.

And no,I don't think me or anyone else thinks any one of those things. I think has a limited tactical approach which promotes basic, safety-first and unimaginative rugby. I also think his motivational skills are virtually zero.

It comes back to what you were saying earlier, there's no doubt he tries but the ability just isn't there.