Yes, see the edit from your admin, no need.

Nail on the head..

Neil is just being kind, he probably thinks you're a "typical Wigan RLFans poster" too. (by the way, that means ROBINSON)

I think you need the Sack Agar thread bud

I should pay more attention ! sorry wrong thread!

Lol, never had any problems with your lot bud, been living here going on 7 years, I probably watch more Hull FC home games in a season than Wigan games.

Seriously whether the RFL decide to crack down on wrestling or not is their call but the fact is, as of now it goes on and some teams are clearly better at it than others. We were atrocious at controlling the ruck early on in the season, were penalised for it rightly so, and I was the first to complain about it but I think we've improved. It seems that Hull players know in theory what they need to do in the tackle but haven't mastered it in practice. The referees have total control over how long they allow for each tackle and teams need to learn to use this to their advantage. I personally think the refs allow too long but by playing to the ref teams cannot be accused of cheating, the Melbourne situation was a farce in the WCC but that was down to the ref not down to the players.

Most players will lay on at the start of matches and test how long they can lay one for................. its always gone on that and creeping up on the ten metres testing the ref. He gives either a warning or a penalty then everyone knows the tolerances and usually abide by them. Trouble is now its an art from with wrestling coaches employed by clubs to improve the length of time they can keep opposition players on the deck.

Some teams are really good at it and have been for some time, Huddesfield for example are masters at it. To a lessor degree so are London its part of the game now and some refs pick up on it others do not, the majority seem to be the latter of late.

Now if the refs are allowing it then we have to get wiser and get a coach in to teach them the same tricks, as it appears most teams do now do it to some extent or other.

For the record I do not like it and I think it should be an area that is tightened up, but its not going to happen now is it, because Cummings is going to back up his refs 100%.

The teams that are breaking the law are all trained by AUSSIE coaches

Wrestling is for WWW Raw not rugby league

Yup, but dont talk about that, Wigan fans are happy to win at all costs, see the cheating of the 80's for evidence.

They're not breaking the law, they're playing to the ref. Hull were trying to do the same but the mistake they were making was trying to turn the attacking player onto their backs when he had already found the floor on his front.

Maybe you need to get yourself an Aussie coach or a coach who has been trained in Australia, at least until the RFL decides to crack down on it.



I'd pretty much agree with all of that although I'd say the key to good wrestling technique is not how long you can keep a player on the deck but how long you can keep a player off the deck.

Well said. Too much room for interpretation now. There's a set of laws just stick to them. Would have thought that would be easier for the refs than not.

Because the teams that a wrestling well now are playing to the refs, if the refs cut the amount of time allowed in a tackle these teams would adjust to it without any problems. FWIW I think they should

Perhaps all this moral high ground is a bit rich from someone whose supporters booed every tackle we made just to pressurise the ref.

I am no more responsible for some of my fans doing that than you are of some of the idiots who give your club a bad (unfair might I add) reputation, fact.

And besides. fans do that at every ground in the country mate, the Southstanders at Leeds are probably the worst for it but they aren't employed by the club so good luck to em, referees should be professional enough not to listen. I shout at my own players when they're messing around at the play the ball, I absolutely hate it. Agar is a coach and should know better its bad enough in football with manager's either saying things to refs at halftime or criticising them in the press, players aren't allowed to do it so its hardly setting a good example or creating the right mentality for the players. Daniel Anderson, Ian Millward, Justin Morgan, Brian Mclennan etc have showed in the past that moaning about refs gets you nowhere, Agar should learn from it.

I for one do not want a Aussie coach I want to see a English coach.. To coach English players to kick the ar-es of the Aussies

If an English coach can do that then thats all well and good mate, the majority of fans want the same.

One which your club, unfairly might I add, well and truly shares.

As I said earlier the reason they boo at every ground is that no one knows from one week to the next what interpretation the ref you get will be putting on the rules. there is no definitive consistant standard for holding down, simple as! We would never have won on Friday if you let us have 17 players on the field at the same time you were better than us.

But all this don't critise the ref stuff is rubbish, you have to, one of your tries came straight from a quick tap on the twenty that was at least 15 yards to the right of centre. I thought that was against the rules but obviously Mr Alibert felt he should not stop the flow of the game! that blatent disreguard for the rules frustrates the fans and no doubt the management. For me the action of all those coaches you list is down to one thing total frustration with the quality and consistancy of refereeing, it is ruining our game as a spectacle!

Just my probably outdated views of course but some that I think a few more fans who are getting fed up with standards in refereeing would agree with.

Agreed, I was using it as an analogy not as a dig.

The refs are dire at times, everyone knows that but coaches need to get together and go through the correct channels to deal with it. Consistency of refereeing is a separate issue than this for me if Agar can't see the difference between what Wigan were doing and what your players were doing then he shouldn't be a coach. Fans of every club in the country cite certain refs they feel has it in for them, on our board when the ref for the next game is announced you can guarantee the next post will be complaining, whoever it is. It achieves absolutely nothing moaning about it either as a fan or a coach but the coaches job is to make sure his team do everything they can to avoid being at the wrong side of the penalty count, your discipline in the first half at Wigan was atrocious and this needs addressing by Agar as a priority as seemingly Friday wasn't the first time you've failed to control the ruck.

Coaches have been trying that for years. Nothing happens. How long do you suggest we put up with it?


Except on here.

You won't find anyone claiming that any refs have it in for Hull. It's competence that's the issue, not bias. Halibut is just plain incompetent and should not be an SL official. Simplez.

With all due respect, the ref only has one pair of eye's. if they donlt watch the defensive line for off side they are slagged. now, if they don't watch the tackle / play the ball, they are slagged.

Refs, in my opinion, are only poor if they miss something obvious, like the ball carrier knocking on. Even then their view could be obscured.

I think in many sports, because money talks and no one acsepts the blame, the easy way out is to blame the ref.

I personally lilke the comment "You have given us nothing...blah blah blah". The ref is not there to give anything to anyone. If anything they are there to penalise infringments.

As has coaches moaning in public about refs, does that work? Until there are more refs there's nothing to be done other than 'put up with it' and having coaches slagging them off in public is hardly the way to encourage people to become referees.

So Hull have no fans who think refs have it in for them? I've lived here for long enough to know that's not the case.

I know we're never going to agree on the subject but some of your fans have got the right idea. If you don't start playing to the refs its going to be a very long and difficult season, when the ref makes the call you can't pick a player up and try to turn him over. That's what Hull were doing and why they were penalised for it (in addition to numerous grapple tackles). I'll have the DVD by the weekend if you want a copy.