He certainly wasn't our stand out worst player yesterday apart from that obvious missed tackle in front of us all in the covered stand.
I feel he was made the scapegoat yesterday, his performances alone should dictate that he is not selected for the first team yet Agar still selects him.
To haul him off in the manner he was with all the fans jeering was imo very humiliating and I felt for the guy.
He should not be in the firing line and for me this is the fault of Agars.

Most of our problems are due to the lack of man mangement skills with Agar and his coaching staff and total lack of leadership.

The decison to leave Whiting on the bench for 47mins shows that Agar is clueless as things should have beeing changed when we went 18 nil down. Thorman is poor and shouldn't be in the 17 but again this is down to a coach that has lost the plot if he ever had one to start with.

If you really think that a lot of our problems stem from man management then I think you're burying your head in the sand.

What do they stem from then?

I quite agree Agar has been clueless in all aspects of the game.
To leave Whiting off and use Horne again at fullback was delusional to say the least.
I have definately had enough, I went to Cas buoyed by a Leeds performance but that's it now. I shan't be wasting my time going on Friday.

Our players not being good enough, their terrible attitudes towards Rugby and our club?

Bearing in mind this'll be the 3rd manager that will have been sacked while the core of players are still here and you've got to ask when will it be their fault?

I agree with your second point, but surely management of the players by the club (coaches and board) is responsible for their attitudes? Or at least not snapping them out of the bad attitudes. Why (allegedly) do players go on the lash with impunity? Why is there no apparent discpline in the club (the last disciplinary issue I can remember was Thacks getting banned for complaining about being subbed FFS)? Why do only certain players get singled out for criticism by the bosses? Why do our chairman and chief exec not say they understand the fans' frustrations and will work to put it right?

That to me is bad management, from top to bottom.

It is both.

Exactly.

This is not a zero-sum game. Plenty of blame to be shared around, and plenty of people worthy of receiving some.

I honestly believe some people just don't want to play for our club. McRae alluded to a 'cancer' at our club, so the last 4 managers have had to deal with player revolt. The thing about man management is if someone really doesn't want to do something and have nothing to lose by not doing it I don't think the best manager in the world could deal with it. If players prefer drinking to the club and don't care if they are got rid of what can he do?

It's being alluded to Radford taking the pre match against Leeds (I think it was), everyone knows Kings exploits, people have said Thackeray doesn't want to play Rugby anymore, Tickle has got personal issues. That's 4 players that we know about, that coupled with injuries

Don't get me wrong, Agar has left me baffled by some of his decisions (G. Horne playing instead of Whiting, No look in for Maloney) however he hasn't being dealt a good hand at all. Players with awful attitudes, a big injury list, Visa issues. Also looking back on last season, Carvell leaving us in limbo for ages making us miss out on targets, Dykes' leaving very late on in the summer making it impossible to sign a decent SH.

I just think that there may be something in him if the board are willing to stick with him, he's well respected and connected in Rugby.

and did nothing about it imo.

Good points though. My only thought is that if players prefer drinking to the club and don't care if we get rid of them, then let them find out by getting rid

I hope that is the case at the end of the season and I really think it will be.

Why is this being discussed under Thorman topic
You inferring Thorman is part of this supposed merry band of players who prefer drinking?
Couldnt be further from the truth...

Never said it was the truth - read the page before.

Thorman has never from what I recall had a good defence but he was good in his attack... if however players don't give him the options or follow his calls then we ain't going to be good in attack...

He's been treated shockingly, to be hauled off the way he was made it so obvious that he is the scape goat for the staff as well as the fans

did you see it?

He hasnt helped himself though with some truley shocking displays...shouldnt have played again after the Leeds game away and "Allaged" arguments with other players.

Bollox! He shouldn't have been in the 17 for a start.

Regardless Cas scored another try so a change was made and he was withdrawn to allow Horne to partner Berrigan and Whiting to FB (which is what it should have been from the start) the fact he didn't like it is tough.

No he hasn't. He was having, yet another, poor game and was rightly taken off. The fans reaction to it was the shocking part of it IMO.

Far from it He's been treated far to well.

He shouldn't have played again after the leeds away debacle.

I'm surprised you chose to attend our game rather than watch Rovers whup Bradford.