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| Quote ="Whiting"No you misunderstand me. What i meant was if he were playing in the second row, then Tickle wouldn't have to play 80 minutes.'"
Ah, i agree. Radford and Tickle in the 2nd row with Burnett spelling them. Play a creative loose forward too. If Manu was fit i'd have Manu and Burnett coming off the bench as well as 2 props to play each forward for 40 mins per game.
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| Quote ="Big Dave T"Ah, i agree. Radford and Tickle in the 2nd row with Burnett spelling them. Play a creative loose forward too. If Manu was fit i'd have Manu and Burnett coming off the bench as well as 2 props to play each forward for 40 mins per game.'"
Yeah exactly, i was just giving Agar a little bit of sympathy as Burnett was out, and as soon as he came back Manu was. But still that's no excuse
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| Quote ="Whiting"Yeah exactly, i was just giving Agar a little bit of sympathy as Burnett was out, and as soon as he came back Manu was. But still that's no excuse'"
I'd maybe at least play Radford for 55 mins and Tickle for 55 mins giving Burnett 50 mins. At least that way Tickle wouldnt looks so knackered.
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| Quote ="fc baldy"Whiting average?..........he has the best rugby brain at the club and needs to be signed up ASAP.'"
Whiting does have a great rugby brain and reads the game very well, however what is his position in the team other than a utility player. He is competent at centre but doesn't have the pace that great centres have.
He isn't an out and out 1/2 back for me and doesn't have the bulk to be effective in the back row. He's like a loose forward from 20 years ago maybe but most teams play with a glorified 2nd rower there now which is a role better suited to Washbrook.
If he bulked up a little he could be an effective back rower similar in style to Chris Chester. he runs good lines and has an eye for an opening. I don't think we should be paying top $ though for a fringe player.
With regards to Washy, I'm not sure what other people see when he's in his most effective position of 13, however for me he has a tremendous workrate, puts in a massive defensive stint each and every game and creates more opportunities than our 1/2 backs have in recent years. He'd be very sought after if he left us IMO, Whiting less so.
Having said that, I hope Whiting does stay, however on the terms that reflect his position in the squad
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| Quote ="Big Dave T"I'd maybe at least play Radford for 55 mins and Tickle for 55 mins giving Burnett 50 mins. At least that way Tickle wouldnt looks so knackered.'"
I think that's how I'd go, to open up the 4th bench spot as well. We've criticised our rotation policy on here for being too mapped out and rigidly stuck to in the past, and I think having 4 out and out forwards on the bench would do exactly that. A hooker/utility would open it up more and give us a bit of flexibilty to adapt our tactics if/when the game needs it.
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| agar said before the start of the season he was going to use thorman to take some goal kicks so he could rest Tickle during games but it hasn't happened. We wwould get much more out of him if he didn't play 80 minutes every week. Fatigue plays a massive part in missed tackles and giving away penalties. I can't think of any other teams who play their 2nd rowers for 80 minutes every week
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| Quote ="carl_spackler"I think that's how I'd go, to open up the 4th bench spot as well. We've criticised our rotation policy on here for being too mapped out and rigidly stuck to in the past, and I think having 4 out and out forwards on the bench would do exactly that. A hooker/utility would open it up more and give us a bit of flexibilty to adapt our tactics if/when the game needs it.'"
I'd look at who were are playing against first too. If Berro is playing 9 we could go with 4 forwards and no hooker on the bench v a big pack. If Berro is playing 7 we need Lee and Houghton to rotate and could even carry 1 reserve prop v a smaller pack.
Agar seems inflexible to using his bench differently, uneducated in using his bench correctly and value adding during a game and he seems unable to think of a Hull strategy that doesnt involve a prop at 13 to play 5 drives and a kick. Im not hopeful of any decent rugby til he goes.
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| Quote ="Big Dave T"I'd look at who were are playing against first too. If Berro is playing 9 we could go with 4 forwards and no hooker on the bench v a big pack. If Berro is playing 7 we need Lee and Houghton to rotate and could even carry 1 reserve prop v a smaller pack.
Agar seems inflexible to using his bench differently, uneducated in using his bench correctly and value adding during a game and he seems unable to think of a Hull strategy that doesnt involve a prop at 13 to play 5 drives and a kick. Im not hopeful of any decent rugby til he goes.'"
You're wrong, everyone knows that sean long will overcome all of agar's deficiencies as a coach
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"You're wrong, everyone knows that sean long will overcome all of agar's deficiencies as a coach'"
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| Quote ="Rock God X"King will probably only play half the season though, so we need capable cover.'"
Cant they pay him off?
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| Quote ="Big Dave T"icon_lol.gif'"
Problem is plenty believe it. Amazing how the heat has been taken off agar after 2 pitiful performances.
Maybe our tactics next season will be 5 drives and a better kick?
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| Quote ="RockNRolla"Cant they pay him off?'"
They can but would count on the cap. Personally I'd take the hit as he's obviously not up to it anymore either physically or mentally
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| Quote ="RockNRolla"Cant they pay him off?'"
King could be paid off or allowed to talk to other clubs, just because they are under contract does not mean that they can't leave.
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| Quote ="Big Dave T"
Agar seems inflexible to using his bench differently, uneducated in using his bench correctly and value adding during a game and he seems unable to think of a Hull strategy that doesnt involve a prop at 13 to play 5 drives and a kick. Im not hopeful of any decent rugby til he goes.'"
That is RA's biggest fault imo, he always seems to have decided what changes he will make before the games even starts. He needs to be able to read a game and think outside the box at times rather than being so rigid in his thoughts.
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| Quote ="PAUL M"That is RA's biggest fault imo, he always seems to have decided what changes he will make before the games even starts. He needs to be able to read a game and think outside the box at times rather than being so rigid in his thoughts.'"
kear used to do the same
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"Problem is plenty believe it. Amazing how the heat has been taken off agar after 2 pitiful performances.
Maybe our tactics next season will be 5 drives and a better kick?'"
Not sure I've any evidence of TBH. Plenty think he's the sort of player who will [ienable[/i us to improve our style of play, that's not the same as saying he'll [imake[/i us. It still comes down to coaching, I think others (like me) are simply hopeful that signing Long is an indication of a change in the coaching attitudes and our tactics to come.
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"agar said before the start of the season he was going to use thorman to take some goal kicks so he could rest Tickle during games but it hasn't happened. We wwould get much more out of him if he didn't play 80 minutes every week. Fatigue plays a massive part in missed tackles and giving away penalties. I can't think of any other teams who play their 2nd rowers for 80 minutes every week'"
Precisely! Tickle's best games always come after a week off e.g challenge cup weeks, or the first games of the season. Is Agar blind to that? Or does he just not care.
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"kear used to do the same'"
Why miss out Sharp? Same again.
We've had pretty much a succession of coaches with the same bad habits, just to progressively worse lengths.
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| Quote ="carl_spackler"Why miss out Sharp? Same again.
We've had pretty much a succession of coaches with the same bad habits, just to progressively worse lengths.'"
With Kear,Sharp and Agar it is clear that these 3 people have an exceptional knowledge of the game but and its a big but - they cannot coach and as our board etc (who have done very well off the field) have no real indepth knowledge of RL are probably swayed by someone that can talk a very good game.
We need someone who is well respected to become a director of rugby (I would not usually advocate this role - as a top class coach would not need one) but we are seriously lacking in RL experience atthea top level
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| Quote ="geronimo"With Kear,Sharp and Agar it is clear that these 3 people have an exceptional knowledge of the game but and its a big but - they cannot coach and as our board etc (who have done very well off the field) have no real indepth knowledge of RL are probably swayed by someone that can talk a very good game.
We need someone who is well respected to become a director of rugby (I would not usually advocate this role - as a top class coach would not need one) but we are seriously lacking in RL experience atthea top level'"
Coaching is a about man management and with the best will in the world kear, sharp and agar are hardly inspriring figures. kear has the ability to motivate a group of underdogs to achieve the odd upset, however isn't capable of doing it week in, week out. The other 2 are just dull
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"Coaching is a about man management and with the best will in the world kear, sharp and agar are hardly inspriring figures. kear has the ability to motivate a group of underdogs to achieve the odd upset, however isn't capable of doing it week in, week out. The other 2 are just dull'"
you are missing my point these 3 people have extensive knowledge about rugby league - at a higher level than coach we have knowone who knows much - you can be convinced about these people's ability but it does not make them good coaches.
Agar lives and breathes RL he knows all the best youngsters in the country but he is not a coach (maybe one day) - this man would be ideal as our chief scout/head of youth development.
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| Quote ="geronimo"you are missing my point these 3 people have extensive knowledge about rugby league - at a higher level than coach we have knowone who knows much - you can be convinced about these people's ability but it does not make them good coaches.
Agar lives and breathes RL he knows all the best youngsters in the country but he is not a coach (maybe one day) - this man would be ideal as our chief scout/head of youth development.'"
That is my point. Just vecause someone is technically very good doesn't mean he's effective at getting his point across to others
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| not really making myself clear here - the last 3 coaches have a lot of knowledge about RL - but have been lacking on the coaching side.
Our board/Senior management do not have the same knowledge so cannot distinguish between knowledge and coaching ability
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| Don't we have a ooc players thread? I thought this was a rumour thread? I've just looked back 5 pages and nothing. Some one sort it out!
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| Quote ="geronimo"not really making myself clear here - the last 3 coaches have a lot of knowledge about RL - but have been lacking on the coaching side.
Our board/Senior management do not have the same knowledge so cannot distinguish between knowledge and coaching ability'"
Yeah but they must be able to distinguish between wins and losses. And rool has played rugger to a pretty good standard so I'm sure he's well capable of distinguishing between a good and a poor coach
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