Buying a ticket doesn't necessarily win you the prize. There is also the rarely made argument that Agar isn't useless and has done a reasonable job pulling you through a (possibly unplanned) transitional period - even reaching a final along the way.

The Tony Smith at Wire argument is a compelling one, but I think Agar did enough this year (16 SL victories) to buy a bit of breathing space.

I really do not get your point Standee?

The only significant increase of 'cost' would be the coach.

If that coach can bring greater on field success, then (most probably) the gate (and the sale of merchandise) would go up. Keeping an unsuccessful coach, could well see the gate (and the sale of merchandise) go down.

My point is that the current board are quite happy as they are, unless we all stop turning up they will never invest more than they can get away with.

The financial success at the club is like a house of cards, built on a large group of layal fans. Sustained mediocrity would soon jeopardise the financial model. The small amounts of profit we make would soon disappear if crowds and/or merchandise sales dropped even a relatively small amount

Ooh, look, Sulky McSulk's arrived. Yikes, Mild Rover, 3 registered users and 2 guests online on the Rovers board. Looks like you're missing the "X Factor" over there






Indeed. But you can improve your odds of winning by having more tickets, ie a coach with an excellent record.


I've never said Agar is useless, but he is in a group of coaches like McNamara and McDermott who are genuine and hard-working but IMO won't deliver what Maguire has delivered at Wigan, ie taking a group of non-world beaters and completely transforming what they produce on the pitch week in week out.



Possibly. Doesn't alter the fact that the board should be seeking a top class coach at a club with such obvious potential.

Interesting. If we build up more assets as described above, will that reduce the negative reserves? If not, is it our current modest profits that are added to the negative reserves making them less negative? If so, how many years would you estimate it would take before dividends can start to be paid?

Whatever the answer, if the directors want to start making serious personal money from the club they have to generate more income (ie bigger crowds/more prize money/better sponsors) all of which would clearly increase from greater success on the pitch. The refusal to see that a top class coach is the kingpin to this beggars belief.

Warrington got rid of their "Agar" and look what happened.

Bit disrespectful to call Nobby an "Agar" but Wigan invested in an even better coach and look what happened.

McNamAgar took Bradford form the top to the bottom in 3 years flat - look at their attendances now and the obvious impact on profit.

What do Bradford do? They recruit Potter, potentially this years Champion coach and proven at Saints and Catalan (another club near the top when [ihe[/i left) and recruit for the squad madly. Apparently no expense spared despite a hard financial season because they are [ilooking to the future[/i and know that if they carry on like they had been under McNamAgar there would probably BE no future in SL for Bradford.

Hull are lucky in that our ground is the best in SL thereby guaranteeing a SL place certainly for the next 4 years or so. And their fan base are staggeringly loyal unlike other clubs. But I now feel the warp yarns across which that loyalty is woven are stretched to the very max will start to snap one by one if we have another season of boring mediocrity.

So Mrs B is right. A world class coach is not only desirable but essential to the very future of the club not only sucess wise but long-term business-wise too. Because without success there will be no long-term support at this level and no income.

Is he in his big leather boots?

We all know that as a club we need a top class coach but don't think D.Anderson would come as he went back for his kids sake .

We need a coach who can get the players backing and to learn them the basics how to back up,run lines,tackle and try the unexpected .

A coach with more than one game plan, does not have favorites and has a game plan that both first team and under 20's play to, so that when you promote a player they don't look like a fish out of water for first 4/5 games.

Maybe it's not the money???
I think a TOP Australian coach or even an ordinary/unknown one with a strong personality would be unlikley to accept the way things are run at FC. Hence if we were able to get a "reforming" coach then everything would be open for change and that coach would be be given/take control of the direction of the club. I think that's what our current controllers are afraid of. Agar is very much associated with the playing side and from what I've seen doesn't get involved in much else. People like Maguire , Smith , Anderson and even Morgan are seen to be much more than the guy that coaches the players, they are the club and influence everything it does. Imagine someone like Gus Gould here? I don't think our board can!

for "our board" read Kath and Jim Lad, they want to control the train set, it's as simple as that.

About 15 years at current run rate.

Doesn't stop them taking salaries though

No, but consider that we are spending the full cap and pay hundreds of thousands to the SMC. In the context of most other clubs losing money, some, like Wigan, a [ulot[/u of money on bigger crowds, the basic maths would suggest they're not taking much if we're returning a profit every year.

2 3rds through the season i was all set to get my first season ticket ( not done so before for parenting issues !! ) but after another dismal end to the season and Agar still producing cack rugby,i won`t be bothering while he is still at the helm !

Have to say I agree with you on this one.
It's almost as if the board have climbed 26,000 feet up the South face of Everest. Looked around at the view and decided what's the point of climbing the last 3,000 feet to the summit. We can see all we need to from here (if you get my rather obscure analogy).

As you have pointed out, from a business perspective, I think the board genuinely do not believe the appointment of a top class coach who delivers on the field would bring them any significant returns off the pitch. Certainly not enough to justify the investment.

There is also the probability that the board believe we already have a top class coach in place. I know this is news to some of us on here, but I honestly believe that the board are of this opinion. They are convinced that he's the man for us, hence the new 2 year deal in April. I know there are many of us on here who are truly baffled as to how they have arrived at this conclusion, but arrived at it they have.

Either way, Mr Agar is going nowhere. At least not for another 18 months (minimum). We're stuck with him and our board who clearly believe in the old adage of "it's the taking part that counts, not the winning". As Sally Cinnammon pointed out we are the new Warrington. Everything in place off the field, but with genuine on field success frustratingly out of reach.

We are destined to be the first supporters in history who get to cheer a bank balance sheet instead of a Wembley triumph. I can see it now, the players doing a lap of honour waving the club's bank books instead of the SL trophy or Challange Cup. These are truly frustrating times for the faithful. So so close and yet so so far away from the real prize on offer.

Turnover in excess of £5m alledgedly (certainly £4m+ in 2007 as we got a point for it in the last licencing round 3 years ago and it certainly hasn't gone down). £1.6m to the players, a reported £1/2m to the landlords, leaves a min of £2m, maybe up to £3m, which is a lot of cash when your 2 biggest expenses are paid for

And Wigan lose half a million a year on bigger gates, spending the full cap and a similar ground-sharing arrangement AFAIK. Medical bills, running the academy, employing probably 30 odd people in admin, finance, retail, community programme not to mention the coaching staff to pay, plus consumables, transport & accommodation, running the website etc not to mention the cost of 10,000 shirts and all the merchandise we sell, sales of which go towards that £4-5m. If our retail margin is 30% (about average for clothing), that's £700k of costs against £1m of turnover before the costs of running the shop with a manager etc. National Insurance contributions on 30 players, and say 30 odd staff as well. I really don't see that the board are syphoning off huge funds from FC to live the high life when we're one of the only teams to make a profit and this generally speaking without progressing to major finals.

Peter Sharp is Andersons assistant at Parramatta.

Wigan also charge a lot less to get in then FC or most other clubs do, not sure how much there season passes are but gauging it on walk up prices and the number of special rates they do I expect its a lot less than you do. I would expect FC's gate reciepts to be more than Wigans.

I think theres a big misconception that McGuire is this supercoach that has transformed Wigan froma bottom 4 club to world beaters, Wigan were not that far off from the GF last year and got also had a good cup run, Nobby picked them up from relegation fodder and got them competetive.mcguire turned up and reaped the rewards of nobles hard work.

As someone said If Anderson was so good why are the eels binning him?

Because he fell out with Hayne.

Eels haven't had a top half back since Sterlo and with Mortimer and Mateo not only turning up for a handful of games they were also going to struggle.

What a load of b******s, have you not heard or seen the now world famous Agar PowerPoint at the first fans forum of the season that addressed this very issue.



We have a squad of world beaters, it says so in the PowerPoint.

Dont forget clearing all them directors loans, few 100k a season must have been , guess that cash is spare now

Who said anyone was "syphoning off huge funds"

wigan's business model has been nothing like ours previously. The club was propped up by whelan. They didn't have a particularly strong retail operation, didn't get a penny from their main sponsors and sold tickets at a significantly lower amount than we do. I'd be amazed if their turnover was anywhere near ours up until the time lenegan took over.

And if we're spending circa £3m on things other than the players and the stadium then it sounds like we have tooo many costs to me

We have a coach so any talk of Anderson is pointless really.

Yeah well said... Nowt to do with FC

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