Better than last season, but it should be with ther personal we have brougt in and we have done pretty well on the injury front so far. Agar IMO isnt up to the job, as others have mentioned we need a top coach to take us onto the next level, I would love to be wrong about Agar but the team isnt leraning from defeats and he is makign the same caoching mistakes as last year. Our tactics are poor.

He has the next 2 games for me, we need to win at leats one of these games and the perforances need to be much improved, certainley at Rovers, as if we carry on our away form we will be in for a heavy defeat.

I hope Rule has his ear to the ground on potential coachs for next year, as I cant see agar getting an extension.

Totalt agree and then see if time to replace Agar.
Can't traval or can't motivate ?

Nope. The thing is though if we win our next two we would be in a very good position. This is why I don't think we should sack him. We are not going to get the type of caoch we want half way through a season. Let Agar see the season out but don't look to renew his contract and start looking now for next season.

Agar is not a bad coach I just don't think he is capable of developing players and moving on to the next level.

My frustration is the type of rugby Agar prefares..

Five drives and a kick..we have some ball handlers now..Long, Tansey and Horne, yet he still thinks driving the pack down the middle will win games, unless he becomes more expansive we will suffer as the pitches dry out, this was very apparent ot Salford. Good teams will just tire us out and ship out, even I know that and I am a girl

I understand the frustration and boy did I feel frustrated on Saturday but I don't agree with all of your analysis.:
1. Our results are better than last years over all so far this year (team versus team).
2. There is real structure to our attack - the try that Lyne scored was from a very structured attack, the try that Hall scored from the scrum was a planned move, the try that Tansey scored against Bradford before half-time was well-rehed and well executed (there are other examples). Last year we would have probably squandered the opportunity in all examples (the Lyne try would never even have been on the cards). What was missing on Saturday was patience - we rarely gave ourselves the field position we needed to mount serious attacks on the line. When we did we scored (e.g. the Lyne try).
3. I think our pack have plenty of mobility and pace including both O'Meley and Moa who have pace in the front row.
4. The key thing is that it is still a very new team who need time to gel around our half-back pairing and, yet again, our two first choice half-backs have hardly ever taken the field together. Here is where one of our main problems is imo.
5. Another main fault that I see is the defence. If we want to play free-flowing rugby we are likely to spill the ball a lot and, therefore, must be able to back it up with powerful, dominating and steadfast defence.
6. Finally, these fantastic Aussie coaches: do we really, as fans, want to watch Huddersfield/Wigan-esque spoiling tactics every week or do we want the free-flowing style that people so often extol the virtues of on here? As for Huddersfield and Wigan etc - let's wait until they win something with their fantastic coaches. It is only a quarter of the way through the season and, as we all know, the only constant is change. For example, look at the different interpretation at the play-the-ball over the weekend. The referees could completely mess up Wigan and Huddersfield's most potent weapon in one fell swoop by changing their outlook.
7. I am still not convinced about Agar but I think it's too early to get over-excited. There are other teams (and coaches) doing a lot worse than Hull. (

6 wasn't "finally" after all)

I don't think it's so much about points as who we've lost to and the way we're playing.

If we'd lost at saints and home to hudds but won at crusaders and salford and at least put in a decent performance at wigan we'd all be much happier. As it is our 2 best performances are a distant memory and it's looking like 2009 all over again.

At least in 2009 we had massive injury problems and a team who were out on the pish every night

Yes I understand that but nonetheless were we to beat KR away and Wire at home it would likely mean we had played well in both games and therefore previous form could be put down to blips etc. 14 points from 20 wouldn't be sackable form even if the make up of those 14 points was not what anyone expected.

I am not confident of victory in either game TBH and 2 more defeats should see the end of his tenure. As you rightly say we have put in some poor performances as well as some good ones this season and the key thing would be to see some improvement in performance. At the minute we appear to be going backwards and if that continues in the next 2 games then

Rich.

Good post, although I disagree with some of it.

I would not mind spilling the ball if we were trying lay an expansive game but we simply are not. We are in the main still playing boring one out rugby and even our forwards have stopped running in two's which we were doing in the early games. Our defensive line speed seems to have gone awol as does our aggression in defence. The halfbacks are an issue to an extent but we can't hide behind that again. Turner has proved to be capable but he and Long were poor against Salford but so were many other players.

My decision about not wanting Agars contract to be renewed is not based on purely this season. I have ben undecided about him for a while and I don't think he is a bad coach but I just don't think he has the skills to get us challenging for the top 4 which imo our cub should be. He does not seem able to develop a player and his tactics are also questionable as his ability to motivate a group of players going by the manner of the defeats to Crusaders/Salford.

Sacking him would be a mistake as we need to bide our time for the right man but I hope this season is Agar's last as I don't see us being successful with him in charge.

His position at the club needs to crystallise in the next 2 months anyway IMO. They either need to extend his contract or say they're not and look for a replacement. We can't afford to be in limbo for the next 6 months. Whoever is going to be in charge for next season needs to know well in advance and have input into who we keep and who we release. Worst case scenario is we sack agar and appoint moore permanently.

It's simple for me, leave Agar and his team in charge for the season but start looking and sounding people out now for next season. Sacking Agar now would mean we are left with Moore in charge and should he does reasonably well we will then end up keeping him. That would be wrong as I think we need a clean sweep. Promoting assistants is not the way.

Very sensible imo - if he proves people wrong by success on the field (top 4 finsish and a final appearance) then keep him - if not, we have time to look for a quality replacement.... although where do you find one?

Sums it up well for me.

The bit about going backwards is the real concern. Poor performances in individual games can happen to the best of sides, but the overall trend is downhill from the opening match at Saints. Given that we have new players 'bedding in' you'd expect the opposite.

Probably a sign that the initial euphoria is gone and a team of seasoned players have suddenly realised their coach doesn't know what he's doing

Satrurday was a prime example of poor motivation and lack of direction on the pitch

Lots of candidates in Australia, I am not saying every coach over there is a good one but we are a big club and should be able to attract a top coach.

The right appointment now cos push on to new heights and turn us into a major force, or we do it on the cheap and carry on as we are.

If we'd done the right thing in 2004 and appointed a top class coach instead of kear then IMO we'd have won the SL title by now. Even kear won the CC and sharp got us to a final with the remnants of mcrae's team so think what a top caoch could have achieved

It's now Monday Jake, and you are still whinging ??

See the problem for me is that 2 wins disguises the fact that Agar is clueless. I got shot down on here last season when i suggested he should be sacked because i'm concerned more about the manner of our performances than the wins/losses.

I was then willing to give him benefit of doubt this year but we've only actually put in a good performance in 1 game this year v Saints.

Will his tactics (or lack of) and his favouritism to some players i cant see us getting anywhere with him in charge.

class

spot on , no more appointments from within all that does is extend the current / immediate climate of mediocricy within the club as we have seen now through so many appointments!!

I think the win against Huddersfield was probably better than Saints and the win against Bradford may prove to be a very good victory - it was also a game where we played without our stand-out player at the time (Horne) so it made us all feel quite hopeful that we might have found a stand-in with Turner.

I guess Agar has 4 matches in my book we need to win the cup and 1-2 of the league games depending on performances if its 1 that has to be friday's match. with 2 close games after that.

I can fully understand the frustration about the performance on Saturday on here. However, as a general rule in sport, people are too quick to call for the head of the coach. The coach is only one element to a successful team. History will tell you that the most successful teams don’t chop and change their coaches just because of a bad run of form. In fact changing the coaches frequently seems to have a detrimental effect on a team’s ability to have continued success. Consistency is the key to a successful team and given it can take at least a season or two to get ‘your team’ assembled, that is simply impossible if you change the coach each year.

In my opinion it’s only fair to judge Agar starting from this season. It’s a fact that the amount and length of injuries we had over the past two seasons ruined any chance of success. Look at Leeds, three times SL Champions for example this year. Of course the coach will get some decisions wrong every now and again. For example, bench rotation and player selection. For me the blame should be shared equally amongst him and his assistant as well as all the players, particularly the senior ones. In reference to the Salford game, Agar would have given the team a game plan to win but they simply didn’t give themselves a chance to execute it. He didn’t make those incredible amount of handling errors and give away endless amount of penalties. With the amount of extra possession you are giving the other team, even the best sides in the world would struggle with those statistics. It came down to desire and motivation and that is one area Agar needs to improve. However, players have only 80 mins out of an entire week to be motivated enough to play at an intense level. Even if the players don’t play for the coach and don’t have respect for him (which I doubt is the case), they should be professional enough to motivate themselves and each other. They should be able to find motivation elsewhere if it’s not forthcoming from Agar. Whether it’s their own reputation that’s at stake, not letting their team mates down, playing for the badge and the fans or even simply the fact they get paid very well to do it! They shouldn’t need the riot act to be read before every game and again at half time just to get up for it. There is also the fact that Moore doesn’t appear to be helping in this area. He needs to stand up and be counted too. Sometimes you need your assistant to “assist” in areas you are not so skilled at, yet nobody seems to look at this.

From what I understand Agar is highly respected by his peers, a true judge of someone’s worth in their position. I think he has improved the team on and off the field this year. Ok we have had some poor away form that needs addressing. Our edge defence on both sides is the biggest concern for me, not the ability of the coach to motivate players who should be doing that themselves anyway.
What isn’t needed is a knee jerk reaction for change as soon as we have a tough patch, something most teams experience throughout a season. Judge him at the end of the season and if it’s still not working then fair enough. I think they will respond against KR and Warrington and silence a few of their critics.

Thats my concern too Dave, As a fan it makes me wonder wether I cold accept us losing the next 4 matches if it finally made them sit up and do the best thing for the club. I shouldn't really be thinking that way but it may be the only thing that works.

Or Agar takes the England Job and win the 4 games

That would be a thousand times better