Fair point about big salaries for wingers, not sure we have a young kid coming through just get, although there us a very exciting prospect coming through, but maybe a bit too young, but think he might get promoted to the first team next year. Be good to produce a homegrown winger, something neither Hull team has managed to do for many years.

So think we may have to look outside the club, but maybe it should be a young winger with potential.

We produced a home grown winger a few years ago, just not a very good one.

Reece Lyne.

And there is the crux of my opening post, I just don't think Houghton is ever going to be good enough a distributor from the dummy half position to allow our halves to get things going as other teams do.
I don't think there is a huge amount of difference between most teams halves, just that other aspects effect how much space/time they have directly after the first/second pass from the PTB.
As has been seen, with Houghton there this restricts us a fair bit and puts that extra split second of pressure on the halves to do something especially when the top teams defences are bearing down on you.

As for Whiting, I appreciate those that are saing he's being played out of position, however when he has played in the pack he has made a lot of mistakes and given loads of cheap penalties away. I'm not saying he should go this season but unless he can nail a spot ahead of Thompson we seriously need to be saying if he isn't good enough to play other positions now (& at centre he is even more woefully short on pace) then is his much vaunted utility value is no longer there..and we should be going down the route of having specialist players even if from the u21s (or whatever it's going to be called squad)

If you'd seen Walsh 2 or 3 years ago you wouldn't have been so enthusiastic
Was very poor in a poor Penrith team.
Ivan Cleary took over , transformed the pack & Wash blossomed
Had a brilliant final season.
When Hulls pack dominate as against Hudds, the halfbacks are fine.
When the pack `bottles it' as against Rovers - its the halfbacks fault

To be honest when Hull were first looking at Walsh, I was underwhelmed.He was far from being a "class" half back many times I saw him. His game picked up in his last season for the Panthers though.
Knowing our luck Miller will really kick on next year when he's in the last year of his contact!.
As for Cooke returning, all good for me if he helps bring success to the club.

I am coming round to the fact we need to finally address the inconsistancy our club has with one week great and the next rubbish and the only way to finally get rid is to have a clear out of players that have been at the club a long time and bring in fresh faces that will not act the same way.

That would mean getting rid of Yeamon, Horne and Whiting, realise it is a big thing to do but coaches come and go but we still have the same thing over and over and it has been years now.

I'd like to see Talanoa play at centre before making a call but as it is Talanoa would lose out for the wing spot but as Lineham has only played 3 out of the last 17 games not sure how he'll comeback. Anyway you need quality replacements and he can cover every backline position.

And he'd also take a big wedge up if he was only here to cover the backline.

Dont see how getting rid of our most consistent player in the last few years will make us more consistent.

Houghton in a team with a dominant 7 would mean his weaknesses wouldn't be as big a deal. Having said that the teams that have had the most success over many years have generally included an intelligent acting half that the team is built around. It's such an important position especially without an organising half in there. If we can find the elusive 7 we want then maybe the fact that Houghton will be with us for ever needn't be the handicap it is now. As ever any criticism of Houghton I make is purely based on his ability and what we as a team need. His commitment to the cause and massive heart deserves nothing but respect.

Ok then we'll have Graham Horne and Will Sharp back they'll move us up to the next level won't they.

Will Sharp would be a perfectly adequate back up winger. As is Crookes tbh. It's a salary cap sport, you can't be paying guys 80k+ (because that's what BJB would command imo) to wam the bench every week. The successful teams spend money in the right areas and rely on quality youth to plug the gaps. I haven't seen much of Lancaster but I've heard good things, why not see what he's like first. We nearly made the same mistake with Lineham and were right on the verge of signing Youngquest instead of giving him a chance iirc.

We have a really good young squad developing imo, especially the pack. I think we need to stop signing 7 players every year and just allow them to grow a little. The two glaring areas are imo left centre, and half back. But Sa should solve one of those and Rankin and Miller are showing promising signs.

Shaul 21
Talanoa 26
Sa 26
Crooks 20
Lineham 22
Rankin 22
Miller 21
Paea 28
Houghton 25
Bowden 22
Hadley 21
Ellis 33
Westerman 24

Taylor 23
Green 24
Cunningham 20
Tuson 24

That's a potential first choice 17 for next year, with their current ages. It's a very young side, but there is a lot of quality there too. Let them grow.

If you think that all we need is Sa to take us to the next level then that's your opinion.

Personally if BJB did come to us I doubt he'd warm the bench and if he came for 80k I recon that would be a bargain.

Sounds like the HTW show for the 19s, think at the end of the year Horne will retire and HTW will step up.

Just like the post above. It's a salary cap sport. What is the point in having 80k or whatever sat on the bench each game or not even in the 17. Jason Crookes is fine as a back up player I doubt he'll be on much.

I'm not saying Sa is the answer to all our problems. What I'm saying is we have a young squad with lots of potential, and rather than chopping and changing every year and throwing money at past it stars we should just sit back a little bit and allow them to mature.

I get frustrated by our performances just like every one else, but I genuinely feel that we aren't a long way off being a top side. These kids will get better over the years and that is what will take us to the next level. Look at some of them this year compared to last. Shaul is developing into a really good well rounded full back, Bowden has become a bonafide Superleague level prop, Westerman is, imo, one of the best forwards in the league now. I just think it's time we followed the Wigan and Leeds model and gave them some time. Do that whilst adding one or two quality experienced signings each year and we will be okay.

And personally I think Talanoa brings more to the table that BJB. He's not the quickest, but if you're going tomorrow just watch the quality of his work when he carries the ball in. Always bosses the collision, finds his knees and elbows, and plays the ball with man left in the ruck. It's not something a lot of fans notice, but finding the floor on your terms is a huge part of modern rugby league. The more he carries the ball the quicker we roll forward.

Interested to know If your of the same opinion this week because personally I thought Wakefield highlighted how very average our backs are.(not being sarcy just genuinely interested.)

We should have been in Peter Wallaces ear when he came over for the World Cup with Scotland.

Being completely ruthless:

Need replacing in the squad:
Crookes
Yeaman
Horne
Pitts
Kent
Carvell

Need replacing as first 17 players, but fine squad members:
Green
Whiting (on this year’s form, warrants time to command his place back)
Watts

Need to improve quickly or should find themselves in the first category:
Crooks
Miller
Tuson (bordering on 2nd category for him, though, not 1st)
Arundel
Rankin

Houghton is a separate case of his own. Needs to improve his distribution (as he always has done), but better organisation/halves would help him a lot.

This is also on the basis that McDonnell is gone.

That is a very good analysis.

Apart from McDonnell the only players OOC this season are Horne, Pitts, Kent and Heremaia. Carvell and Talanoa are OOC but with options for another year.

I would exercise the option on Talanoa and release Carvell, Horne, Pitts and Kent, although there may still be a role at the club for Horne. I don't know what to do about Heremaia.

This is not going to free up much cap space and to bring in new players we would need to pay off some contracted ones such as Crookes and Yeaman.

Agree on Talanoa and Carvell. I've been impressed with Carvs when he's been on the pitch but he doesn't seem to have been on the pitch that often. And we have a lot of props. We could survive without him. Pitts and Kent should go. If Horne feels he has another year in him I can see him getting an extension simply because of his service to the club. Personally I would wait to see what our plans are with halfback recruitment before offering/releasing him. If we end up bringing in another young halfback then I would keep Horne on for his experience as back up. Like you, not sure about Azza. I like him a lot but with Cunningham returning Azza may be a luxury.

I can see us paying off Crookes but would be very surprised to see Yeamo paid off. I think Yeamo will be with us until he decides to call it a day and then he'll be given a role behind the scenes.

In my opinion, our best props have been the elder statesmen. Feka and Carv's have both been very impressive and look the most likely out of all of them to break a tackle. I was surprised to see them both miss out on games that they've both been fit for.

Plus these two also offload the ball which is what we need to do more as it breaks open a defence easier

Two big decisions are Carvell and Heremia.

Carvell on his day is our best prop, but we well covered there with some very exciting young players, Also at his age, he seems to be picking up too many injuries.

Heremia, is a very good hooker, but will be one of outer top earners and is only playing 40 minutes a game, I have been impressed with Cunningham in the games I have seen and that's in a really poor team.

I hope Horne retires and joins the coaching staff, HTW to come in as our 3rd halfback (although by the end of 2015 I expect him to be first choice) with Rankin and Miller or New signing.

Arundel unless he goes really well at Bradford will be released, along with Crookes unless he really impresses for Hull.

Pitts and Kent, will both go, lots of players in the backrow with a few coming through.

Talanoa is a must.

Anyone know how long HTW signed for?

He's just average, every game his positional sense in D is pants, he's been done at least twice on 40/20s when he should have been anticipating what was happening and hasn't got the pace to get back in time to stop it(at times it seems like he's jogging back for it). Whilst his enthusiam is great for the most part in attack and for sure he is a battler he really just doesn't cut the mustard. There's no nuance, he doesn't have the thinking ability to make up for his lack of pace either..sorry but no thanks..back up winger maybe..but not starting 17 material for a side that wants to aim big..