Ok. Agree to disagree. Again.

[size=50I still maintain if he was any more sh[ii[/it, he'd be brown and have bits of sweetcorn in him.[/size

I would say that it is all relative to the club.

If he were playing in NL1, he would be very good.

If he were playing for a small SL club with very little ambition, he would be adequate.

In reality, he's playing for one of the biggest clubs in the whole of rugby league which is supposed to have ambition to match.

I would say that makes him $HITE

Are we one of the biggest clubs with ambition or are we just kidding ourselves? He was the only 7 we could afford/get which tells you where we are as a club i think.

We absolutely are, and always have been, one of the biggest clubs in RL, in everything apart from the boardroom.

As a business we definately are which is why i think the reverse to you. I think our senior management and 'board room' have made us the only SL club to be currently operating at a profit. Everything else we have currently seems to be way off and going backwards from what we had 2003 and 2004.

For me, the size of the club isn't necessarily linked to on-field success, at least in the short term anyway. If you were to look at fan base, turnover, attendances, merchandise, list of honours throughout history etc.... It would be obvious to anyone that regardless of the fact that we currently have a very ordinary squad, we are, and always have been, one of the biggest clubs in world rugby league.

Size and ambition for me are linked to the present not the past. We are definately high up on all of the things you mention but ultimately performances on the pitch are what makes us a big club like Saints and we are nowhere near for me. We've won 1 trophy in how many years?

Assuming you mean major trophies, 18 years.

I think that there are some concerning similarities with Newcastle Utd becoming more and more apparent. Huge fan base of very passionate and vocal fans which demand success, a board that just keeps making very poor decisions and scoring own goals, consistent rumours and problems within the club, constant underachievement on the pitch etc.. etc...

There is no doubt that our success on the field over the last ten years or so would not be considered that of a big club but the club, as a whole, is one of the biggest even though you would have to question the current board's priorities and lack of ambition.

As posted on the other thread, you cannot say that when Agar is asking for leaders to make decisions, a scrum half is THE leader, and Thorman doesn't do it, you say he is playing to instructions.
He runs too laterally, doesn't commit defenders, his passing is laboured, his kicking is below the standard required, his defence is ordinary, and he lacks urgency, he doesn't organise the forwards at either 1st or 2nd reciever, rarely has momentum when taking a pass.

In summary a crap excuse for a scrum half IMO.

A very long wait.

You probably won't remember the dobbins having more coach's than East Yorkshire when they were in the second division,surely you can't be one of the 1500 who have always supported through thick and thin like the other 6000.

I would. very much so.

You've got me

Agar is blaming a lack of Leadership when he should be looking at the tactics he is arming the team with. Its a smoke screen to try and keep his job. The players cannot go out there and play rubbish due to Leadership and their own doing consistently. The problem is Agar and i dont believe a word that comes out of his mouth tbh

its the same in any management, where the management is crap so is the workforce. Agar has to go and take Sharp with him,.

You could have the best employees in the country but if your senior management set the wrong strategy the company will go bust, totally agree with you.

thats why Agar is the problem, we have some good players with great potential, sadly Agar is coaching it right out of them, he talks about leadership HOWEVER he wants to look in the mirror and take a long hard look at himself and HIS OWN LEADERSHIP STYLE. that IMO is the problem. he hasnt got any leadership style or skills

More chance of Stevie Mac taking over from Phil Brown.

Hey was in the club shop the other day getting a derby program, and noticed some 'Sharpy Says Relax' car signs in a bargain basket. Bet they'll be back up to full price if Jon takes over.

Knowing our club that would be the 1 reason they would use to hire him.

haha... might buy some not and take them back when fullprice

You could have any one mentioned but it would still detract from the fact the board at Hull call the shots at every level. Until your board allows a coach some latitutude in signings, backroom staff, how he goes about training methods and where to go etc you will struggle.