|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 13126 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2023 | Feb 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Wollagong Way"Smith has had a few months with his players...Agar has had a season and a half, give Smith the same time and he will have Warrington at the right end of the table, regardless of what players he has at his disposal.
Comparing Smith and Agar is like comparing Wenger and Martinez (at Wigan FC)'"
My point was in answer to a specific post about our error rate. Wire made millions of errors at the weekend. How do you explain that with Smith in charge ? He hasn't had long enough to teach them to catch ?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 13126 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2023 | Feb 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="downtheante"I think that that is fair. I get the feeling that Kear would have done better with this squad although it's difficult to judge. IMO Agar does have deficiencies because he is an inexperienced coach. I also think that one of the advantages of having no relegation is that we can not only, bring inexperienced British players through the system but bring inexperienced coaches through as well. Next year he will also have the coaching input of some of the most experienced players in the world. Bradford, who are doing worse than Hull, are standing by Macca (I think) for the same reason whilst they go through a rebuilding programme. Kath's attempts in the programme to explain how the salary cap has affected Hull this year is an example of her support for Agar and her frustration at the position FC find themselves in. I understand and empathise with people who want success now and to get rid of Agar but it is my hope he proves to be a worthwhile investment for the future. I'm not sure myself that he is - I just want to give him a chance with a fair roll of the dice. Next year will see him with no hiding place because surely the visa issues and injuries can't repeat.'"
Good post and very fair comment.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37503 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2015 | Oct 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| "a fair roll of the dice" - I'd rather he got a fir roll of the drums on his way up the steps to the gallows! (metaphorically)
How much time do people want to give him, "It's okay sir, don't worry, we've got the best up and coming young surgeon in the country, he's a bit deficient in the experience department and his ability to take corrective action has, well, been questioned in the past, but I am sure you'll be fine. Now, just a little scratch......"
people amaze me, RL is a RESULTS BUSINESS.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 8232 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote ="Kosh"Have to disagree with that. When you factor in the loss of Carvell, the non-arrival of Crocker, and the general diabolical crapness of Thorman I think we'd be doing well to be in the lower reaches of the 8 at best.
'"
Don't agree, yes we lost Carvell but his departure is not the main reason we are a poor side, as for Crocker you don't miss what you never had, Thorman is crap admittedly but then we never saw much of Dykes.
For me there is still enough in the players we have to be doing a hell of let better that we are and from time to time this season they have shown they can do it when they can be d but sadly that is only in glimpses.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying we would be world beaters but we should be at least competing with the teams in 3rd to 8th, Agar should certainly be getting more out of the players he has at his disposal. An example is Wakefield under Kear not a great talented bunch of players but he gets the best out of them and has moulded them into a team and plays to its strengths, plus he hasn't taken any messing and shipped out if needed and they too have had injury problems, were as our coach is totally clueless or has just written this and last season off as its not his team.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 1319 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Standee"In terms of ability, or application?
Ours SHOULD be a match for almost anyone, ifonly they could be bothered!'"
Now this is the question isn't it? Why can't they be bothered? We have the argument that many know they will be shown the door, but you'd think that would up the ante for many of them, as they are in the shop window so to speak. It could of course be pure bitchiness, But then they're blokes and blokes don't do that (do they? )
I'm still on the side (just) of giving Richard a chance with his team next season, but doing that of course, and it going belly up, could mean we write off yet another season! Do we really have a choice though?
I've calmed down a bit from Friday, and would imagine what Richard said was on the spur of the moment, and we just seemed like another irritant on his back at the time of the interview. But surely he should know by now (he's been here long enough) that Hull FC are the team AND the fans together, and when we feed off each other we do far far better.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3325 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2022 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Standee""a fair roll of the dice" - I'd rather he got a fir roll of the drums on his way up the steps to the gallows! (metaphorically)
How much time do people want to give him, "It's okay sir, don't worry, we've got the best up and coming young surgeon in the country, he's a bit deficient in the experience department and his ability to take corrective action has, well, been questioned in the past, but I am sure you'll be fine. Now, just a little scratch......"
people amaze me, RL is a RESULTS BUSINESS.'"
But if you don't train that surgeon who's going to take your appendix out when the old ones retire?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 8232 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote ="downtheante"But if you don't train that surgeon who's going to take your appendix out when the old ones retire?'"
but you don't leave them to carry out the work unsupervised, you have them work under the qualified surgeon.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3325 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2022 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Chris71"but you don't leave them to carry out the work unsupervised, you have them work under the qualified surgeon.'"
I'm pretty sure we could carry on with this "analogy" for a long time with neither of us agreeing with the other.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37503 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2015 | Oct 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="downtheante"But if you don't train that surgeon who's going to take your appendix out when the old ones retire?'"
You do train them, not with a live individual who has a loving family that care deeply for them.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3325 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2022 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Standee"You do train them, not with a live individual who has a loving family that care deeply for them.'"
And might that be why Sharp is there? And might it be why Long is coming next year?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37503 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2015 | Oct 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="downtheante"And might that be why Sharp is there? And might it be why Long is coming next year?'"
No, he should be training at a lower league club, seriously, are you his son or something, you go to great lengths to distract people from the fact that he is completely useless.
If Sean Long is good enough to train a coach, then bring him in AS coach, if Sharp is training Agar, then we are in the well and true, he was average as a players.
FFS, Sharp wasn't even good enough for Huddersfield!
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1438 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2012 | Sep 2012 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| If we are now talking about giving an in experienced coach time to cut his teeth at the job then please do it elswhere not at our club FFS! Leeds, Saints etc are not in the business of appoint their assistant coaches.
He (according to some) has been learning the trade under Kear and Sharp and prior to this at York....how many years do we let him learn about the job?!
I stand by what i have said all along......he is the wrong guy for the job and he should not have been appointed in the first place. In doing so we as a club have not pushed on from our realtive success under messers Kear and Sharp.......this 'experiment' could well cost this club in the long run.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3325 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2022 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Standee"No, he should be training at a lower league club, seriously, are you his son or something, you go to great lengths to distract people from the fact that he is completely useless.
If Sean Long is good enough to train a coach, then bring him in AS coach, if Sharp is training Agar, then we are in the poop well and true, he was average as a players.
FFS, Sharp wasn't even good enough for Huddersfield!'"
So the best players make the best coaches do they? There are probably one or two coaches out there who were great players but, on the whole, I'm not sure it's a prerequisite.
We are 4 points off fifth place. Rovers have won 2 games out of their last 7 (one against Celtic) - the same as Hull. However, all I hear is what a good coach Morgan is (a seniment with which I agree btw).
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3325 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2022 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Wollagong Way"If we are now talking about giving an in experienced coach time to cut his teeth at the job then please do it elswhere not at our club FFS! Leeds, Saints etc are not in the business of appoint their assistant coaches.
He (according to some) has been learning the trade under Kear and Sharp and prior to this at York....how many years do we let him learn about the job?!
I stand by what i have said all along......he is the wrong guy for the job and he should not have been appointed in the first place. In doing so we as a club have not pushed on from our realtive success under messers Kear and Sharp.......this 'experiment' could well cost this club in the long run.'"
But Bradford are - arguably one of the most succesful clubs in SL history.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37503 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2015 | Oct 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="downtheante"So the best players make the best coaches do they? There are probably one or two coaches out there who were great players but, on the whole, I'm not sure it's a prerequisite.
We are 4 points off fifth place. Rovers have won 2 games out of their last 7 (one against Celtic) - the same as Hull. However, all I hear is what a good coach Morgan is (a seniment with which I agree btw).'"
Seriously, is your last name Agar?
You really are deluded.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3325 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2022 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Standee"Seriously, is your last name Agar?
You really are deluded.'"
Oh well - with an argument like that I feel utterly defeated. What a shame you didn't come along earlier you'd have saved us all a lot of time and effort.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37503 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2015 | Oct 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="downtheante"Oh well - with an argument like that I feel utterly defeated. What a shame you didn't come along earlier you'd have saved us all a lot of time and effort.'"
What is it you see in him, is it his masterful use of substitutions, is it his amazing public persona, is it the confident air with which he conducts himself, is it the ability to call a play from the bench when we really need direction?
Or is it five drives and a kick and the fact he pays for your judo lessons?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3325 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2022 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Standee"What is it you see in him, is it his masterful use of substitutions, is it his amazing public persona, is it the confident air with which he conducts himself, is it the ability to call a play from the bench when we really need direction?
Or is it five drives and a kick and the fact he pays for your judo lessons?'"
I don't know - perhaps you could read back through some of the exchanges that you and I have had on this thread and tell me. I'm sure you'll find loads of stuff where I say what a great coach he is . Or weren't you actually reading them before answering them?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37503 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2015 | Oct 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="downtheante"I don't know - perhaps you could read back through some of the exchanges that you and I have had on this thread and tell me. I'm sure you'll find loads of stuff where I say what a great coach he is
. Or weren't you actually reading them before answering them?'"
I was reading, you keep saying "give him time" etc etc. I am interested to know where you see a faint flicker of talent that could be fanned into flames?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3325 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2022 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Standee"I was reading, you keep saying "give him time" etc etc. I am interested to know where you see a faint flicker of talent that could be fanned into flames?'"
From the disparaging comments you've made about my comments so far I find it hard to believe that you would suddenly be the slightly bit interested in my opinions?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 15980 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2016 | Jun 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| The main positive of Agar currently is that he at least seems to be doing what many other coaches have failed to do at this club and thats get rid of those who are taking the P1$$. If he does get rid of the majority of players who should be shown the door it will earn him at least the first half a dozen games of next season with me.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37503 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2015 | Oct 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="downtheante"From the disparaging comments you've made about my comments so far I find it hard to believe that you would suddenly be the slightly bit interested in my opinions?
'"
OK, firstly, let's remove any perceived personal slant to this, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. And, contrary to what some on here think, I am actually very interested in other people's opinions, (with the caveat that you should at least have gone to school more than once a week, be capable of writing without using finger spacing and be a modicum more literate than John Prescott).
So, taking that into account, what are your opinions on Richard, can you see a talent in him that needs nurtuting, and if you can, do you think it's right to be nurturing it at one of the few SL franchises to attain an "A" grading. Likewise, do you think Sharp has had a positive impact, can you see any single player that has developed under their guidance?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 8232 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote ="Robbo4"The main positive of Agar currently is that he at least seems to be doing what many other coaches have failed to do at this club and thats get rid of those who are taking the P1$$. If he does get rid of the majority of players who should be shown the door it will earn him at least the first half a dozen games of next season with me.'"
I'll believe that when I see these players are no longer with us next season but sadly I fear we might not see too many changes and many of the players still here.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1438 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2012 | Sep 2012 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="downtheante"But Bradford are - arguably one of the most succesful clubs in SL history.'"
Where are Bradford at the moment?!
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 36786 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | May 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote ="Chris71"Don't agree, yes we lost Carvell but his departure is not the main reason we are a poor side, as for Crocker you don't miss what you never had, Thorman is crap admittedly but then we never saw much of Dykes.
For me there is still enough in the players we have to be doing a hell of let better that we are and from time to time this season they have shown they can do it when they can be d but sadly that is only in glimpses.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying we would be world beaters but we should be at least competing with the teams in 3rd to 8th, Agar should certainly be getting more out of the players he has at his disposal. An example is Wakefield under Kear not a great talented bunch of players but he gets the best out of them and has moulded them into a team and plays to its strengths, plus he hasn't taken any messing and shipped out if needed and they too have had injury problems, were as our coach is totally clueless or has just written this and last season off as its not his team.'"
I had us pegged as finishing 7-9 before the season even started. That assumed Crocker would arrive and we wouldn't get an injury crisis. I haven't seen anything to convince me that we would do any better than that even with a moderately gifted coach.
Without Carvell our pack has no go-forward, so we're always playing on the back foot. He was an absolutely crucial member of the squad, reflected in the efforts we went to to keep him. His absence was always going to be massive. On top of that we have no halfbacks to speak of. You say we hardly saw Dykes, and that's correct. No coincidence then that we only ever performed when we [idid[/i see him. Thorman is worse than Dykes playing the odd game, as he's crap all the time. And Horne might as well be injured again for all the impact he's having.
There is absolutely no way that this squad is anywhere near competing with 3rd place.
Wakey have had some disasters this season, but have a pack with more go-forward and more creativity in the halves. This, coupled with an excellent team spirit and Kear's knack of getting teams to play better than the sum of their parts, is what's got them where they are.
I'm not suggesting that Agar shouldn't have done better. In fact I've specifically stated that he should. But some people are massively overestimating the potential of our current squad IMO.
|
|
|
|
|