For a start, there is no reason that the group should be limited to these players. I don't know who may have been available overseas when we had a chunk of salary cap and a quota space available. I don't know how much salary cap we now have so can't comment on whether we can afford any of those players. I don't know if we have a transfer budget to make a bid. I don't know what long term promises we can make to any player as I don't know what deals we may be looking at from 2012.

It's not my job to find the players. that's what rule et al are paid to do. What I do know is that plenty of other clubs seem to have been able to bring in half backs and that finding one was supposed to be a priority 4 months or more ago.

Anyway, how long is a piece of string?

It's exactly like that. I'm not in a position to speak to players agents so I don't know which players may have a desire to move if the price was right or even if we have the money to meet any demands

No. I'm suggesting that making out that Sam Obst would be a replacement for Berrigan is daft at best. Berrigan's cash doesn't necessarily have to be spent on Berrigan's position.

Nice to see you dodging the question about who we might sign instead BTW.

So you're admitting to criticising from a position of ignorance then?

Good oh.

You said : "Are you suggesting that we should stick the berrigan money in the bank?". I'm agreeing with you that we must have money to spare given at one point we had Berro and Tansey on the cap, both have gone and we've only brought in Phelps. So we agree so far.

You think to be linked with Obst is a joke, so let's assume for now that to be linked with players at clubs finishing lower than us is equally silly. We have no overseas spots left. It's all very well to ridicule the club's efforts at recruitment, but you have to at least have a view on the options available. Which of the players listed, ie those from clubs finishing above our poor effort last year and which we can accommodate theoretically from a quota perspective, would you be pleased with and are realistic targets, assuming we would pay a fee?


But you make it your business to slate their actions relentlessly. If you feel authoritative enough to critique each of their decisions, surely you are able to provide a credible alternative. I've listed as many eligible players from the top 5 as I can think of. Which would you advocate as realistic and credible targets to improve our squad? It's a reasonable question.


Agreed. Disappointing.

Not dodging anything. If I were an official of the club then I'd be in a position to make enquiries. As I'm not then how can I say who we should have gone for if I don't know who may have been available? I could give some of the names and just get back that X club would never sell Y player. Neither of us would know if it were true or not

Never stopped you or anyone else on here has it?

How many times, WE HAVE HALF BACKS!! We are looking for COVER!

C O V E R.

You said : "Are you suggesting that we should stick the berrigan money in the bank?". I'm agreeing with you that we must have money to spare given at one point we had Berro and Tansey on the cap, both have gone and we've only brought in Phelps. So we agree so far.

You think to be linked with Obst is a joke, so let's assume for now that to be linked with players at clubs finishing lower than us is equally silly. We have no overseas spots left. It's all very well to ridicule the club's efforts at recruitment, but you have to at least have a view on the options available. Which of the players listed, ie those from clubs finishing above our poor effort last year and which we can accommodate theoretically from a quota perspective, would you be pleased with and are realistic targets, assuming we would pay a fee?'"

AND 2 1/2 YEARS ON WE STILL HAVEN'T GOT ANY C O V E R

Care to name any names? Would love to hear who you would bring into the squad that are so much better then Obst or the like.

But we HAVE brought half backs in. Which you said we have failed to do so.

I agree, like most people, I would have liked us to sign half back cover. It has been stated that we have not yet finished in our recruitment. But I get the feeling people think we're going into the season with no half backs whatsoever! Long is in great shape and played well against Cas, Horney will be back in the next week or two.

l'estrange, kearney, dobson, green, witt, shicofske, gale, dorn, hanbury, holdsworh off the top of my head who are more what we need than obst

You know I meant half back cover. Anyway, do you expect horne and long to be fit for more than 1/2 our games this season?

Yes I do expect them to be. Our of the names you have said, which would you say we can target at the moment and successfully bring to the club?

I don't disagree that it's a bag of spanners. At all. But, again, we have no overseas spots left. Who are the 3 British halfbacks/hookers at Rovers you would take? Presumably Josh Hodgson and Scott Murrell are 2, not sure who the third is tbh. Similarly I don't know who the 4 non-quota pivots from Crusaders are, guessing Lupton is one?


But this is a slightly separate debate (albeit one that's consumed people on here for years, and quite rightly so). The specific point you raised was that we have Berrigan's money to spend (as he and Tansey were on the cap and now aren't and we have only brought Phelps in) but, whilst you are happy to slate Obst, you're not really providing any other players as alternatives. For example, it's unlikely that Wigan would release Leuluai or McIlorum. But they might entertain an offer for their back-up half, Deacon. What would you think of signing him as cover from the reigning champions, for example. It's very easy to slate anyone we are linked with as inadequate. I don't see why it's an unfair question to suggest realistic non-quota alternatives.

I broadly agree with you about Agar, although my opinion on him is not as extreme. The point of this discussion, though, is to try and highlight, with money to spare but no quota spots, which players are realistic and credible candidates to strengthen our squad from your point of view, since you are keen to highlight those which do not.

They're all quota though, aren't they? We have no quota spots. That's the point, Obst is exempt as he's pre 2008.

We keep saying COVER but let's be honest I would like to bet they would play in most of the games .As for Obst he's a decent player for one year but its stupid how our priority again hasn't being dealt with . If Longy gets injured we have know one to come in for him and we be back to square one

Let's agree that obst is better than what we have now which is nothing. Let's also agree that up until a couple of days ago that we did have a quota spot available and have since berrigan came off the quota 5 or 6 months ago. Therefore, anyone on my list could have been a viable option for the club.

On the basis that wire, who are probably the club who are least interested in money over the strength of their squad, were prepared to sell us myler then probably everyone on your list could have been a potential at the right price (although the price may have been unpalatable or unaffordable but neither of us know that for a fact so let's not get into a pointless debate about it). We have also spent a significant fee on a player who doesn't address an immediate recruitment need so money was (and still appears to be) available.

Without long and/or horne, we struggled last season for direction during games. For me, obst doesn't offer that. He's a half decent back up hooker who's main attributes seem to be his elusive running allied to some pace off the mark. I don't ever remember watching him play and thinking he's really controlled a game. Last season he was probably behind newton, leo-latu, jeffries and brough at wakey before the season started so it gives you an indication of his quality. If we'd announced his signing 6 months ago no one would have been thinking it was a good signing, in the same way phelps was "garbage" until we didn't have a full back with less than a week to go before the start of the season.


The real crux of the issue here is that the club knew at least 8 months ago (probably longer) that our options at half back were inadequate. So the question is why have we failed to bring someone in in all that time? Also, why is a club with a full salary cap available going into the new season with a paper thin squad? If we look at what we have, then I think you'll agree that recruitment for 2011 has fallen way short:

1 full back ( Isn't in the country but tansey's fault, not the club's)
2 wingers (plus 1 with a handful of games behind him)
2 centres
1 stand off (injury prone)
1 scrum half (injury prone
4 props
1 hooker
6 back rowers
1 utility back

Plus a number of kids who, I believe, can muster 1 substitute appearance between them.

So overall my gripe is that we're a little over 24 hours away from the start of the season without having addressed our primary recruitment need and are now scrabbling around trying to throw money at inadequate players at a club in financial crisis because we haven't done what should have been done months ago.

Oh, and yes, I'd happily have taken deacon or even orr, both of whom offer more of what we need than obst

dorn and dobson are both exempt, maybe others but no point looking as it's a red herring because we had a quota spot until a couple of days ago. gale is English

This is the point that i really dont get to be honest. EVERYONE knows Horne and Long wont be fit for the full season, so why the fook do the board go out looking for cover when in fact we need a starting half.

Name another SL team who have gone into this season with fragile players in such pivotal roles? And for the second season running!!!!

I would not call him average or good, probably decent. He has poor games and at times can be great. As cover off the bench at hooker he could be a useful foil for Houghton and also provide some genuine cover for Long.

I agree. The failure to use up a quota spot effectively is poor. Obst is better than nothing but not ideal. I would go along with the "it's only a one year deal" view if I thought we had great plans in the halves for 2012. My personal view is that the much-rumoured big HB signing could, like any other club's, be scuppered by the tax changes. We would hypothetically then be presented with another problem - increase the offer to the player or end up looking for a quality British HB like everyone else. With this in mind, I think the club have actually targetted the closest thing to the right player in Myler. I also understand why the player would not want to move at the back-to-back cup winners with Briers approaching retirement.


I agree it's a weird choice for 2011. But I also think that for 2012 and beyond Westerman and Sharp will be valuable quality British players. We're also a prop short so although we have depth in the back row this might allow a bit of rotation.


Can't disagree with much of that. Although Phelps I think might be better than "garbage". Personally I've been after us having a mature head in the backs like a Domic type player as our backs are quite young, and think a player like Phelps might go OK.




I get it and have posted much the same myself. I also think there's a question mark around the other dimension of squad balance ie the salary bandings, but without an up to date Powerpoint presentation, I can't make an informed comment.




Agreed again.

Thank fook for that

He's gone so we move on.