I stayed to the end because that’s what I do. Many didn’t and quite a few around me said they wouldn’t be back until Smith had gone. I’m not a coach bagger but AP has to be told the depth of feeling amongst the fans, if he doesn’t act many will leave and it’ll take a miracle to get them back. The problem is, if AP acts, who could possibly turn this shower of Shiite we call a team around. I called for Litten to fullback, Hoy to stand off, Smith to scrum half and Nu Brown to hooker with Houghton to loose man, Smith just continues with his failed line up, so to answer the thread’s question, YES.
On another note, if that was a yellow and probably 2 games for Pele, then the sport is an absolute disgrace and will probably lead to more fans leaving.

No, that's exactly what they work on, surely?
They are so good at making the same mistakes it must be down to coaching and practice.

Seems Smiths hands are tied with a strict playing budget..Pearson has told him what he has and he has tried to build a team with it..12 players left last season, during or at the end...replaced with 7...quality wise, its worse.

Don't think Smith will work his magic with us I'm afraid.

Do you think Salford spend more than us? How can they make it work but we can't?

Smith has no magic.

Quality wise we know we are nowhere near Saints or Wigan but what I do expect from our playing squad is effort and development.
London played with structure and enthusiasm and were unlucky not to beat us and you could argue they have less quality than us.

I want to see an improvement in all facets of our play and discipline.
This is down to coaching not money.

No, probably less but they have a brilliant young coach..also more importantly have a person who knows Rugby league inside out doing deals and finding players that nobody else would go for.

Go, but we need some investment or it won't be much better.

Wonder if Lee Briers feels he's ready for a head coach role

Has he gone yet?

Would you be happy with 11th,11th, 6th and 10th? Given where you are now you might be.

Rovers were not and sacked Tony Smith. You should too. In truth Tony should never have come back after his Warrington days which ended in a damp squib and years in exile followed during which he became quite out of touch.

Not a single Rovers fan would want him back.

sorry guys I don’t know the financial state you’re in.

Big club with a big fan base.

Needs someone to come in an overhaul the joint. If you’ve enough money for these bad Aussies you sign you can give wane a big deal.

Not an easy scenario for fans. All you can do is keep the faith and keep supporting your club. All clubs go through periods like this… even the so called mighty…

It’s always the Coach
Always !!!

AP is also the worst man manager I’ve witnessed. He can’t control or motivate his coaches and just accepts the rubbish they serve up.

AP needs to completely change how he is and hire a world class coach

Rowley at Salford shows just what you can do
Smith is clearly unable to motivate his players nor install any form of discipline.

This gets worse from here mark my words
Oooh it gonna get a lot worse

I told a mate we would lose last night
I knew it
We don’t know how to win and play with no structure at all
It’s all basics

STOP praising effort as that’s a given in Rugby
Saying a team tried hard is such a boring thing to say - yet we haven’t even tried hard from the kick off in this match

Yep Smith needs to do the honourable thing and call it a day

Don’t hang around to be sacked Tony
Do the right thing here

We haven’t even played Saints Wigan or Salford yet have we ?

9 game barometer isn’t even needed

Our 18s got smashed at Wire this week and it was all due to discipline

Seems it runs through the club

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/r ... ds-9170823 I just don't really believe any of this anymore... stick with us, we'll fix it, we want to make it right, we're determined... it's all just clichés, defence should've been far better than it is, that comes from pre seasons,.fitness needs to be better, attack needs to be better...lane said earlier in the week they've learnt lessons from Catalan and they'll get it right this weekend, then they serve that up today, but don't worry...theyll learn. As for keeping turning up to the games, why should I Tony? I went to Catalans last week but can't see myself going again for a long time, can't justify giving up a day of my weekend, a round trip from Leeds and spending £40-50 to see absolute rubbish, there's better and more enjoyable uses of my time currently

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/r ... ds-9170823 I just don't really believe any of this anymore... stick with us, we'll fix it, we want to make it right, we're determined... it's all just clichés, defence should've been far better than it is, that comes from pre seasons,.fitness needs to be better, attack needs to be better...lane said earlier in the week they've learnt lessons from Catalan and they'll get it right this weekend, then they serve that up today, but don't worry...theyll learn. As for keeping turning up to the games, why should I Tony? I went to Catalans last week but can't see myself going again for a long time, can't justify giving up a day of my weekend, a round trip from Leeds and spending £40-50 to see absolute rubbish, there's better and more enjoyable uses of my time currently

Todays shambolic effort/performance has absolutely nothing at all to do with quality or lack of in the 17 that played today but everything to do with p15s poor preparation, coaching and attitude.

There is simply no excuse as to why a team of paid professionals can not even grasp the fundamental basics of rugby league.
As for Smith post match comments they just rub further salt into what is now an infected open wound.
Quite how Pearson goes about repairing the damage done today I don’t know but I feel without doubt keeping Smith & Gene employed beyond this weekend will be the death if the club and the last straw for most fans who have quite simply had enough of been taken for mugs and patience has finally run out after 6 years of poor management, leadership and performances .

The only move Pearson can make is the removal of both Smith & Gene and follow that up by removing Clarke from anything team/recruitment related.

After sitting and watching that and being totally embarrassed..... again!!! Hers my own personal take on it. I have to say firstly that its not Smiths fault completely but I would be quite happy if he were to go because it simply isn't working. But who honestly can ever make it work.

It didn't work with Gentle (Players got rid of him) it didn't really work for Radford (Because a small group of senior players in 2016 got the rest by the scruff of the neck, otherwise it was average at best) Last did OK (just because he was one of the lads the players knew he was a short term fix and in the end they did for him) Hodgson was a sentimental cheap fix appointment (and allowed the malaise to continue whilst having no idea at all of how to stop it) and so we come to Smith (an accomplished coach who had been pretty successful at every club he has coached) but he's obviously baffled by it all.

So what is the common denominator? I'm afraid it has to be the malaise, Cancer, culture or whatever you want to call it that runs through our club.

It's been around for years in fact even Johnny Kear referred to it about his latter days at the club in his book. There is something at our club amongst the playing group, that festers and continues whoever is in charge. I don't know what it is, but it's been around for years . Every recent season we have had massive scores put on us, capitulated at about round 15 and faded away without trace and yet no one can do anything about it. Why do we think that really committed players like Swift and Sneyd left? Wanting to relocate????? I think they were as fed up with it as we all are. Pearson too has to take some responsibility because he hasn't replaced quality players like for like never mind improved on them and the quality has down down and down. but he inherited the culture and nothing really has changed. Back in the bad old days of the 70's at the boulevard we would go off at half time 20 or 30 points down to applause because we recognised we were not good enough but every player was trying his heart out for us lot stood on the terrace. Some of this lot are taking the p*ss I'm afraid.


What is the solution, well I doubt even the England Coach can sort it, because no one else has been able to. And who would want the poison chalice that is Hull FC? There is something radically wrong at our club something spookily inherent in generation after generation of players and perhaps those who are up themselves need the short sharp shock of fans walking away from the club because the only thing that is working at Hull FC at present is the strength dedication and love of the supporters. All I can say is that after today's thorough humiliation against a team without a win and hindered by their own injuries, thank goodness there is no relegation this year, perhaps the players know that fact as well?? . So today an absolute shambles but next week a spirited performance and perhaps another in the Derby before the status Quo returns again as it always does.

I’ll try keep a straight face but we all told you so! Smith is so far out of touch and Gene is poison in any club. Pearson won’t go as I understand he takes a wage from the club as his only source of income. Pearson said Smith would be his last ever coach appointment so if he has any credibility and sacks Smith Pearson goes with him and that’s a big problem. I am baffled why they signed the players they have, they are simply not good enough and luckily Cas are as bad as you and London where arguably better but unlucky

The squad we've assembled is easily bottom 4, I don't think any other coach could do much better. AP has cut corners and now paying the price for doing so.

I don't doubt that and most people on here accept we are a bottom 4 team and with the squad we have defeat most weeks is inevitable. What is not acceptable is the manner of the defeats and today is a prime example. Smith should go but he's only part of the problem. The whole structure of the club needs to be overhauled.

The squad looks the poorest on paper I’ve seen at your great club. That is really bizarre…

Agree, it's the manner of the defeats, had we lost an entertaining game today by say 2 tries or less i'd say 'ok we're in transition, brighter days are ahead' but there wasn't a single positive in any aspect.

I don't think our problems are really Smith's doing. Far from it. I think he's been dealt a tough hand. However, I think the job is too big for him. Yes he's got experience, yes he's used to dealing with pressure, but this is different. We need to overhaul the club from top to bottom, and I just don't believe he's got the stomach for that at this stage in his career. We need someone young and driven with fresh ideas. Who that would be I'm not sure, but there are plenty of good assistants out there waiting for their chance. I don't mind us losing every week if I can see some sort of long term plan and some green shoots of progress. At the minute we are going absolutely nowhere.

I think we are definitely struggling financially post covid and are trying to cut our cloth. How much we are struggling is up for debate, and opinions are varied, but we certainly do seem to be badly in need of some investment. Our problems are compounded when you consider that a big chunk of our cap is tied up in absolute dead wood. Just Tuimavave and Houghton's salaries alone must surely be enough to bring in 4 or 5 useful players, and neither of them are good enough anymore. They aren't the only ones. The whole squad needs ripping up and starting again tbh. Of the current squad of 40 ish there would only be about 10 that I'd be sad to see go, and most of those are kids fresh from the academy.

We have three fundamental issues at the Club, financial, recruitment, and coaching.

No one knows our true financial situation other than Adam. We know Adam isn’t as rich as other owners and we know we have a Covid loan. I suspect it is true we are the loan repayment has made a major dent into our finances. I also think the cushion of no relegation means Adam has taken the opportunity to reduce the cap spend to allow our cash flow to cover the loan repayments. This started last season when Kane Evans and Griff were not replaced during the season. This has contributed to a less than competitive squad. The challenge will come, when if Adam is true to his word and our final situation improves later this year, our cap and hopefully marquee spend increases. I think he needs to update us on our financial situation and be realistic on where we are and when we’ll be back at cap and if and when we’ll be in for any marquee signings.

Our recruitment has been poor for several years. Since 2017, I think the only good value signing were Ratu and Clifford. On limited viewing, I think that both Ese Ese and Pele could become good signings, but that is dependent upon them staying on the pitch. We knew last season that major squad change was needed, however although changes began, i don’t think we can say we are even a club in transition yet. Looking at our squad, if we want to compete for the Top 6 you’d want us to have a core of at least 12 players to go forward into next season, before our next batch of recruitment, to go with a batch of developing youngsters who supplement the squad. Out of our current squad, the only players I’d definitely keep next season are Ese Ese, Pele, Walker and Ligi. Everyone else is replaceable or their salary could be better spent.

The past seasons have led to us accepting mediocrity. For instance, I’ll use Cam Scott and Fash as examples. I’ll just say, I like them both and they have never let Hull down. Fash is and always will be a prop. However, at times we play him as a Loose Forward and some are accepting of that. Fash never takes a step backwards or shrugs a tackle, but he is not a LF. I can not recall Fash putting someone through a gap or show creative handling. Cam has been in or around the first team for 3 seasons. Sound in defence, however as a Centre he rarely makes an attacking break. Today I saw the rumour that he could be going to Wakefield and that some would think that to be a shame. I’d be only worried if a Top 4 side were coming in for our players. Other than a great offload to Swift in last years Derby and following up his own kick to score v Salford, I can’t recall Cam being a real attacking threat. To be at least a Top 6 side, we need our centre’s to be able to make a break, to run in tries from 30-40m out. I think of Schofield, Leuluai, Steve Evans, Richard Horne and Yeamo. That’s what I expect from our centres. Fitness too, including today’s first 5 minutes, Sutty and Carlos have played 11/34 games together in the past 2 seasons.
I work in logistics. All the top companies replace their vehicles every 4 years, 1/4 each year. Sports teams should follow a similar pattern. Some players will stay longer than 4 years, others for a shorter period. However, we seem to have hung on to too many players for too long and also have had them in one batch and this has led to an imbalance.

Finally coaching. The pressure on finances and bad injury situation has not helped us last season or the current campaign. However, whichever Hull team take the field, I think it is fair for the fans to expect structure, discipline, fitness, effort and a game plan and that comes down to the coaching team to instill that into the 17 players each week.
Discipline - We are currently lacking with most of these. In 4 out of 5 games this season, we have conceded a try within the first 6 minutes. We have received 3 red cards, 3 yellow cards, had 6 suspensions for a total of 9 games. Also 5 games in, we have yet to complete a full half with 13 players and we have not once had more players on the pitch than our opponent. Whatever we think of the referees and the RFL Disciplinary, most of this record has been self inflicted.

Fitness and technique. Our line speed is awful. Both Rovers and Leigh’s line speeds were excellent. It’s easy shouting they are all offside, but I noticed Rovers especially were drilled to come up quickly in a line and closed us down immediately throughout the game, as did Leigh today. Why can’t we do that? That’s the Coaches job and you go over it again and again on the training ground until it is second nature.

Game Plan - have we got one? There’s no game management. Our kicking game is awful. We do the same comfortable kick offs to our opponents catcher. Against Rovers in the 1st half we had Ashworth kicking on the last tackle, that’s was both unfair on the player and questions who is calling things on the pitch? Successful teams don’t do that. Without fail on the last tackle, Wigan used to give it to Andy Farrell; Leeds to Kevin Sinfield; and in 2016 & 2017 Hull gave it to Marc Sneyd. After 3 months pre season training we give it to a player who should never expect to be first receiver on the 5th tackle.

Effort - this could be better and more consistent. Tex Hoy’s effort today was great. He left everything on the pitch and he was hurting. Last week at Cats the effort was generally good. However, v London, Matty Russell showed more effort than we’d seen from the whole Hull team in the previous games. That’s a worry. That’s either a club attitude or we have the wrong players.

So our issues are significant across the board. Before we make a decision on Tony, we need to know what our financial situation is; we urgently need a proper Head of Recruitment with better contacts and a better squad replacement policy; once those are in place we can decide on the coach. We either stick with Tony or decide to go with someone else who can instill extra value into the squad. Shaun Wane or Steve McNamara or Paul Rowley may be the British coaching options; or we go to the Southern Hemisphere to find a Coach who can make a difference we need.

Finally, I stayed for the full 80 minutes today, I always have done for the past 49 seasons. I’m a season ticket holder and these days I live in Rugby and it’s a five hour round trip to come to a home game. The club is in my blood and always will be. However, I don’t blame anyone for leaving early today. Leigh were good, but they were not great. They were missing their 3 best players and cut us open with ease.

Our fans deserve better. A club of our size should be in the Top 6 every season and really be in the Top 4 competing for trophies. Currently we are a long way off on both counts.

When Smith was appointed, I was relieved because for too long, we had appointed Assistant Coaches with no man-management skills.
They say a teams performance, is an indicator of the personality of the Manager. Laid back, can't be bothered....
Everyone and his dog knows, we are short in quality.. but fitness, and defence are non negotiable, for professional RL players. This is the responsibility of the Manager to ensure a group of players are physically and mentally prepared to play a game of RL.
Personally I would go out and get Shaun Wane, and allow him to appoint his own coaching, and fitness staff.