My thoughts exactly.not just the number of tackles they make but the technique were they dominate the attacker slowing the ptb down. Lose the ruck and you lose the game. Last night was a clear example of that.

So we have three key injuries and we can't cope, have not enough experienced players to make up some/most of the shortfall, that's extremely short sighted given how injuries/suspensions can happen in RL.
kirk Dixon summed it up perfectly on RH, youngsters with not enough experience.

We had an over the cap squad last year by loads only keeping under due to backloaded contracts hence we've had to offload players all over the place to stay under the live cap this year so we are having to rely much more on the youngsters.
And if due to a combination of signing outside players and not realising that non injured players need rotating, our youngsters that are on peanuts simply don't have enough experience/not good enough to step up to cover anywhere near as much as we are losing in those key areas, not even close.

it's a circular/cyclical problem that stems back to when Radford took over, bring in players from outside to gain success, last season he Radford (and to an extent Pearson too) really needed to win something or top 4/massive improvement + a final otherwise he'd be gone, so bust the cap with back loaded contracts to afford to have all the players like Taylor/Pryce/Sneyd/Manu/Fonua/CT/Ellis/Minichello/Pritchard etc to increase that chance and to a degree it paid off. However we saw what happened due to not having the balance and 1st XVII players completely knackered and too late introducing youngsters with even less experience than this year.
Try to address this in pre-season but it/they simply aren't enough and against a good team like salford we got found out, we are being found out mental strength/preparation wise too.

The youngsters hopefully can only improve but can they be good enough because aren't these supposed to be part of the building the team around the upcoming academy players ethos that we were sold and that pearson invested massively in?

As i've said a few times, since Radford took over the closest we have come to a player from the system getting a first team spot is jordan Abdull, there are no other players that have made their debut under Radford that are cementing a regular place.
We've got some good solid forwards from the academy but none are pulling up trees and aren't 1st XVII material or cpable of being near the players they are replacing down to inury or suspension, not yet.

it's this aspect - lack of bringing youngsters through, i spoke about before the 2016 season even kicked off and this is precisely why Wigan do so well with their youngsters, they are ready to throw them in and the players themselves are ready/well coached/drilled so the shortfall in experience is not so noticeable.

Radford has been the first coach in years to bring on young players. If Gentle was here, we'd be watching the likes of McDonnell and Youngquest turning out.
Not only are we a number of players down, they happen to be our best and most influential players.
Let's see how things pan out before turning the knife into the coaching team. Last time I looked, nothing was won in April. Let's see were teams like Cas and Salford are when they pick up injuries to crucial players.

Noticeable enough to lose their last three games

Have I missed something. Reading on here you would think were routed in the bottom four. It's been a steady start if not spectacular but having heard nothing but how it's important to peak at the end of the season and not burn the players out by using the squad isn't that what's happening. Like previous posters said nothing won in April.

It's not an excuse for the performance but for over half the match on Friday we had missing:

Both our first choice centres
Our first choice stand off
Our only hooker
2 of our 4 first choice props
Our captain and talisman

Add in losing our first choice scrum half and first choice full back for 10 minutes each and there's no surprise we lose but, as I say, the manner of defeat was unacceptable

I don't like back loaded contracts. It's robbing peter to pay paul and just stores up problems for later. I have to say I'm surprised we're doing it after one of the main criticisms of the previous coach was the lack of VFM on the salary cap and although we now have a good first 17, if that's using all of our cap then you're asking for trouble when your squad lacks any real depth of experience.

We just have to hope that the injury situation doesn't get any worse and we can get 3 or 4 back for leeds and keep the squad relatively fit over the next few weeks or we'll be scratting around at the bottom of the top 8 and the season will be over in July

Take the stand off, hooker and loose man out of any team and they will struggle. People are going on about our squad depth being under strength. Wigan with arguably the best youth set up have lost their last three matches playing three or four youngsters. We have lost two matches abd sit fourth. I am happy with how we are going. We are not playing particularly well and sit fourth. I'll take that any day

So Gentle never played Lineham, Crooks, Bowden, Green, Hadley, Shaul, Thompson, okay whatever, Genetle had to utilise what we had, he played youngsters all over the park through necessity, we got to the play-offs and a CC final with two shocking injury strewn seasons with a new coach or did you forget just how many players that came through under Gentle?

Gentle had only the beginnings of the new academy system, Radford has now had what 5/6 years worth of Pearson investment in the academy and yet no players have come through since he took taken charge, that's a fact and due to his lack of bringing players through and the academy not producing players good enough (the list of players leaving is growing ever longer due to being discarded by Radford).

I'm not saying the loss is the be all and end all for this season, I've not over=reacted but what Kirk Dixon said on RH is spot on, many on here can see the wide gap between our youngsters and the first XVII selections otherwise those very posters wouldn't be stating that we lost X,Y,Z, we didn't lose them, we still had 17 players, we just didn't have players with enough quality/experience on show. Compare to how well Cas and Wigan have done of late with masses of injuries our showings have being well below that.

Will those youngsters get better, hopefully, will they become part of the XVII on a regular basis, who knows but so far Radford hasn't brought anyone through in over 3 years to do so, unlike the coach before him.

Is this a crisis, no, we've lost 2 and drawn one, however if we cannot change what we are doing on the field to cover for injured/missing players and behind the scenes to change the mentality of the players and improve on the discipline and error strewn rugby we have witnessed so far this season then it's not ideal is it?

One season success that is bought at the cost of success further down the line is very bittersweet, I just hope that isn't the case.

Maybe the players "discarded" had a bad attitude?

Maybe not even that good. Rovers unofficial forum discussing sending us down in the MPG. TBH if that's the price for Wembley last year I'd still take it.

Gentle wanted to bin Shaul that's why he signed Mccdonell, luckily Radford talked him around, same with Lineham as Gentle wanted to sign Youbgquest to replace him, again Radders spoke out.

Thompson was hardly a home ground youngster, whilst he did play the likes of Bowden and Green how much have they improved under Radford.

So my that reckoning about 5 people made their debut under Gentle?

Litten, Turgut, Fash, Logan, Abdul, Downs, Masi and Lancaster have all played debuted for Radford.

You keep saying the same thing over again, but have no real point, Radfords job is the win games and play the best team, bring and develop youngsters when they are ready by playing the odd game, which to me he is doing.

The one where you need 11 fingers and a single digit IQ to join? Actually, it would almost be another great season if we did play them in the £ million game and won with a golden point drop goal

Indeed, he led us to a CC victory at Wembley, its always his fault when we lose, but scant praise when we win. SL is wide open, lets all cast judgement in a couple of months.

Don't be rude. We have a lovely time on there.

You can tell you've not watched Salford at all this season. I said in the pre season friendly that they were finally playing like a team and not 17 individuals, and their ability to keep the ball alive is fantastic. They are the only team to have taken points off Castleford so I have to ask, what is so average about them??

Thank you Karen for pointing that out.
I think you had two issues on Friday. Firstly you had a number of key players out which would affect any team. Secondly your players underestimated how well Salford are playing as a team. I think Friday was a blip and you'll be there at the end of the season competing with the best.

You're welcome. I was lucky enough to be in the press conference after the friendly and I left very impressed with Ian Watson. You have an excellent young coach there and I can see you going from strength to strength under him.

I think Wigan have lost games of late as a result of their injuries, despite playing ok. and I think Cas are actually benefiting this year from having to do it tough last year with their horrendous run of injuries. They can all now come in and do a good job.

Throwing in players who are not first choice, to replace key players, will not usually bring an 'A +' performance. And we saw that magnified on Friday.
But every game for our fringe players adds something to their game. They will come through, and be good for the team, but they simply have to be given time to learn their craft. Experience can't be bought.

There are very few 'young uns' who become first choice on the team sheet. The likes of Shaun Edwards, Garry Schofield and Lee Crooks etc are few and far between these days.
We just have to be patient when we have injuries to key players.

The scoreline hurts I agree, but as Jake said, the sin binnings were also crucial, and didn't help.

I went to the pre- season friendly game at Salford and in all honesty we were never in that game either. Credit where it is due, this is a side on the up and i think too many of our fans just roll up expecting us to beat these type of teams. The bookies were guilty of it as well, had us giving them 8 points on the handicap. I honestly believe they will be a top 4 side this season.

The Hadley situation is a strange one but anyone believing that the likes of Hadley would have had an impact on this game are on cloud cuckoo land. Even with a fiull strength pack, I don't think we would have won, it may well have been extremely tight. We have to face the facts that their 3/4s were way to powerful and skilful for our backline and if we keep coughing up ball and penalties they would have hurt us badly regardless of whether Ellis and Taylor had been there.

I stuck up for Radders 2 years ago and wont turn on him now but I do sense a worrying trend in his ability to develop our backs and give young 3/4s a chance compared to the forwards at our club. When the England Aademy side played the Australian Schoolboys at Leigh in 2014, Abdul and Lancaster played staring roles (Logan possibly was involved in that series) but they are both gone now. Also playing in that side where the likes of Golding at Leeds, Gildart at Wigan who are now absolute stars and the likes of Toby King at Warrington who now looks ready to break big time too.

Why is it our players haven't developed? I worry about the skill levels of our 3/4 play in general and coaching of our younger backs.

I think you make some really good points Lummy re our 3/4 development. Lets hope it is something that Radders is working on.

It's noteworthy also, that although Martin Gleeson (who is now on the Salford coaching staff) courted controversy in his later playing days, he was a class 3/4 in his pomp. Ian Watson says Gleeson is a totally changed person and an important part of the coaching team there. The Salford 3/4s certainly moved the ball through hands with real zip and looked very dangerous. Wonder if its the influence of a Test centre ? Their winger Johnstone looks to be a real find too, what a player he is going to be.

But we also have a Test centre too in our coaching ranks, albeit in his first season in the role. Maybe having a Test 3/4 involved in the coaching of a 3/4 line is the difference ? Well its working for Salford.

Are you getting your getting your Johnstones mixed up, the one at Wakey is great and should be an international very soon and could do well in the NRL, the other Johnson (Greg) at Salford is 27 and been around for while, very good on his day, but very inconsistent.

Which 3/4 coach though, who is available?

In fairness we had 2 of our better handling backs out in tuime and Kelly. Then griffin went of early plus fonoa was playing centre after playing wing most weeks. Add in binmans first match back and there's reasons we looked ropey. Add in we where missing half our starting pack and where facing a very useful Salford team. Looks like after reading Radford in hdm its salary cap issues keeping Hadley at wakey.

He's not available right now, but I would have Cooke back in a heartbeat.

Ditto.