I don't understand that kind of attitude to this.

Some fans want the club to receive a strong message from that there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the way the playing side of the club is being run. Others think it's more important that the club receives the unswerving support of fans so that it's income doesn't decrease, regardless of dissatisfaction.

Both views have their merits and both have the best interests of the club at heart.

You honestly think that they don't know?



And in any case there are plenty of avenues for expressing dissatisfaction that don't include the side effect of threatening the financial security of the club.

Some will say we dont need the £200,000 we could miss out on!

We've found a way to operate without money? Fantastic news!

Beggars belief eh!

Where did I say I didn't think they knew there was any dissatisfaction?



It's often commented on here that the only way the board will ever take notice of what fans want re the playing side of things is if it starts hitting the clubs finances and I'm pretty certain this is true. 'Tell Us', call a director, the fan's forums etc have their purpose for things like pass payment plans and what sort of gear the shop stocks but it's pretty obvious they have no bearing on playing decisions.

On the one hand this is quite right as if a club always made those kind of decisions based on the whim of the fans they'd be sacking people every 5 minutes, but the club has asked the fans to back their judgement for a long time now without producing any kind of success or even sufficient entertainment. Therefore if some fans stop handing over their hard-earned and this in turn encourages the board to make the requisite changes then I don't see how this can be a bad thing, especially as short-term decreases in income will soon be made up for if the changes lead to an increase in entertainment levels and/or more success for the club.

You don't have to agree with that point of view but to ridicule it or say people aren't 'true fans' if that's what they think is just silly.

Any drop in pass sales this season will be seen by the club as a reaction to the economic climate and not a view on the style of rugby we produce.

That's just your opinion, you have no idea how they'll view it.

I agree it's pretty likely that's how they'd try and present it in public but if that's what they really believed then they don't have the business acumen I thought they did.

Of course it's my opinion, everything I say on here is.

You have no idea why people may not buy passes but you keep passing it off as people being disgruntled with the coach and the style of rugby. It could well be down to financial reasons as much as rugby ones.

Here:


Or are you simply advocating telling the club something that they already know?


Based on what, exactly?


You don't see how the club having less money to invest in playing staff or, ironically, a new coach is a bad thing?

Really?

What do we finance the changes you crave with? Pobble beads?


I've never used the phrase 'true fans'. I reserve the right to ridicule the ridiculous though.

It[i could[/i be yes and without a survey of those that don't renew it's always open to speculation.

However if they wanted to blame a drop in sales on the economy then you'd expect to see a similar drop in pass sales at most other SL clubs, if you don't see that then the other major factor you have to look at is the standard of rugby being produced.

Every club is different, we are expensive compared to some so we might have a greater drop. Anyway we don't yet know if there is a drop or what it will be. Another factor could be the East stand being reserved, there is no certainty that any drop is all about the rugby and therefore the loss of income would hurt the club badly and not really make any kind of point regarding the style of rugby.

Any fan wanting the club to sell fewer passes and therefore bring in less money is stupid IMHO!

Back to square one really, I said both viewpoints have their merits and logic but those on your side want to shout down those on the other as 'stupid' etc. I could just as easily accuse you of being a 'sheep' etc.

Anyway as you say, we don't even know what the sales figures are yet!

Anyway,

There are some VERY exciting things to come out of the club in the next couple of months, and i for one am very happy about it.

We are one of, if not the, best run club off the field in the super league.
We offer our fans alot of media products like FC.TV and future Media development (FOR FREE!!!!).
We made major improvements last year but just fell slightly short in the last 2 games.
Our player and directors are very approachable and will speak to you about anything you wish to discuss.

I, for one, am very proud and happy with were the club are heading and what they are striving to achieve but this will take time after a nightmare few years of things being done badly. This negativity is astounding sometimes and as Paul has said, the probable reason for people not renewing is that they cannot actually afford it and not that they want to 'bankrupt the club to teach them a lesson'

You do this a lot. You accuse other people of being ridiculous etc but don't like it when they accuse you of something. I don't have a side only my opinions so accuse away.

Also where is the proof that the board will only take notice or indeed take any notice due to reduced pass sales? Or is this just to suit your 'side' and your 'argument'?

Let's wait and see but I am pretty certain that a drop in pass sales won't result in Agar losing his job.

Agar will only lose his job if the team don't get results on the pitch, results off the pitch i.e. season pass sales will be deemed part of the marketing department.

So last year 9500 people paid good money and committed to watching at least 13 home SL games.

If say 2000 of those people choose not to do that again next season you are saying that that their decision is in no way related to their experiences of the previous season and simply because the marketing campaigns must have been inferior to last year's?

So anyone who decides not to renew their pass due to the style of rugby is, by inference, stupid?

Why did your dad not renew?

If only I'd known that

What's 'difficult to understand' is why you think they need a stronger message sent when they get told about it all the time.


I've made no secret of the fact that I didn't want Agar appointed in the first place and that I thought his contract extension was premature at the very least. However, I don't expect the club to make decisions and take actions based purely on a knee-jerk response to complaints from fans. That way lies madness and ruin.

The BOD, for whatever reason, have decided to give Agar a chance. I disagree with them, but I'm not so arrogant as to assume that I necessarily know better or to expect them to tear up any plans they may have without giving them a chance to succeed. Unlike many on here I don't share the opinion that the BOD will be happy to see the club drift along without challenging for honours and at least making finals. Agar will live or die by our results - which is as it should be.

Posturing and demanding changes under threat of taking your ball home is not, IMO, mature or logical behavior.


Self-inflicted?

Good grief - could you be any more responsibility averse? You want to claim kudos if a drop in pass sales forces a change but avoid any culpability for the inevitable adverse consequences? Talk about having your cake and eating it.



And if pass sales are not a significant and important income stream, just how do you think that a drop in numbers will 'send a strong message'? You can't have it both ways.

Your last point is essentially opening up our income to the effects of random chance. Hardly good business planning.


I really don't care what phrases others may have used.

I find the idea ridiculous because it IS ridiculous. The downsides are too serious to be messing about with, it looks immature and petulant, and the 'logic' behind it is faulty in any case.

A false correlation if ever I saw one.

I agree with a lot of what you say, which makes it all the worse that they don't seem to be able to get things right on the field. I don't buy into the "10 minutes from 4th place" rubbish. Fact is the season is 26 games long and we finished where we deserved to based on results (you could argue we were lucky in a few games to get the points also).

People are "negative" because season after season they've spent their hard earned believing this will finally be "the year".

My personal opinion is that the club hierarchy believe they have a secure income irrespective of on field performance (within reason) so focus more on maintaining that rather than really getting to grips with what goes on on the pitch

Your myopia knows no bounds though.