Nothing suprises me with Minns....this is the bloke who allows the council to spend £800 a MONTH on flowers for the Guildhall...WHY???????

So you take on a 6million loan as well as your over Debts...........tell the midget to give us a ring and we can give you tips on how to make a profit.

he's been trying but he just can't find a flower seller who charges more

Is it, though? From whom to whom? Prudential borrowing fund to the council? Which would mean that the council take on the asset title and debt, plus the risk of Rovers defaulting on interest and capital repayments. Or is that incorrect? I've asked the question on the Rovers board but no one seems able to articulate where the assets, liabilities, interest, rental and capital repayments belong.

So the council meeting £4.2million of the cost is a loan? Your Club`s debts are well documented and they then ask for a loan running into millions?
Maybe Hull FC can ask for a loan of millions for paying transfer fees for top players then?

As far as I understand it you have it right.
Putting it simply it has cost the council £0 and 0pence in capital.
The funds are released using the building and the rents due as security putting it very simply unless I have it wrong.
One thing I do know it that the funding for this has nothing to do with HCC's other financial problems and if this had not got built that would not change 1 iota.

Why can the council use the players as security?

Thanks for your reply, but that wasn't really the question. I might have misunderstood, but the council are borrowing £4m from a prudential borrowing fund, which as I understand it is usually from the Public Works Loan Board, ie central government. Someone is paying for that initial central government outlay. Who might that be? Who will own the stand, Rovers or the Council? The council are taking all the risk here of Rovers defaulting on repayments. Presumably if Rovers are repaying both interest and capital over 30 years that will be, say £200k a year, or a portion thereof if they are sharing with Hull training etc. At £200k additional cost each year, you'd assume the breakeven attendance figure will have had to rise to at least 11k.

whilst they do need their ground improving now is simply not the time in the current financial meltdown.when people are being made redundant cash would be better spent on regenerating local industry and benfitting ALL the city not just a few thousand rovers fans.and lets be honest here,they dont sell out their games that often anyway.
it should at least be put back til the current recession ends

sado

no suprises there you only have to look at where this council spend the money .most of it is spent in preston rd and east hull

The 'stand' aside the council has pulled the plug on all capital works to fund people moving from their own private homes into low cost private homes...mmmm...wish they paid for me to move!!!!!!!!!

gollom on humberside tonight said rovers will pay somewhere in the region of £55k a year ''rent'' for the new north stand over a period of 25 years.plus 2 other institutes will have some sort of building space/offices,which they will pay the same.at the end of the 25 year(?) period,around 9.3 million will have been paid from all 3 institutes(inc rovers).

Indeed. We only have the notorious Councillor Phil Webbo's assurances (on the notoriously hysterical message board of the Wail) that the council will use this prudential borrowing thing. Who are the "3 bodies" that will pay rent to cover the loan?

I'm guessing that the funding will be funded in a similar way to a "buy to let" second home. Ie, a person buys an additional property to the one in which he lives via a mortgage. He then lets it out to a tenant to live in, who pays rent, the danger being that the tenant defaults leaving the owner with a mortgage shortfall. Or, the interest rate on the loan increases to a level where the rental repayments are no longer sufficient to cover the debt.

This type of "risky" lending was one of the contributors to the recession and why the banks took such a massive loss.

Has anyone got a more reliable official council confirmation of the actual structuring of the funding?

As far as I undrstand it the return is only slightly higher than the origional outlay.
I could be wrong but I belive the stand is council owned until it is payed for.
The 55k amount plus partners money quoted by our little welsh friend only equates to £4.1mil so a zero interest amount seems about right (Although he said it was £9.4mil which I am struggling to understand as that would mean each party would be laying out £125.333.3p a year).
Can someone confirm my maths are correct?

Who do the Council borrow the monies from in the first place?

Is the debt unsecured, like if you get a personal loan to buy a car, pay an extortionate interest rate, but own the car....or:

Is the debt secured, like a mortgage, where the lender can recall the debt on default and sell your house from under you?

ie, if the council are the legal owners of the stand, can the mortgagor claim it if necessary?

I wouldn't take any notice of Lloyd - he couldn't even work out the basic maths on who played who in the play-offs with one match to go, and his attempts at discussing quotas or accounts are frankly embarrassing.

Having looked at the prudential loan listings, it seems that about 3% is the average rate but it does vary. £55k a year would seem too low IMO - Rovers contributing £1.65m over 30 years to a stand costing £6.5m? Unlikely.

The monies come frome central Govenment as far as I know.

The debt is secured on the stand and against future payments.

The council own the stand until it is payed for I think.

I'm not 110% sure as I am going on what info I can find as I never knew this kind of loan was available to companies.

But we are only talking about £4.2m as the rest is being funded by grants AFAIK.

Quote ="WormInHand"Who do the Council borrow the monies from in the first place? Is the debt unsecured, like if you get a personal loan to buy a car, pay an extortionate interest rate, but own the car....or: Is the debt secured, like a mortgage, where the lender can recall the debt on default and sell your house from under you? ie, if the council are the legal owners of the stand, can the mortgagor claim it if necessary?'" Sounds like the council own the legal title and bear the risk to me. They borrow from these chaps or someone like them I reckon: www.dmo.gov.uk/index.aspx?page=PWLB/About_PWLB Here's the sort of loans they make to local authorities: www.dmo.gov.uk/documentview.aspx ... ans_Report As Phil Webster alludes to, if Rovers were to go t1ts up, the council (ie the Hull taxpayer) bears the risk and is liable for £4m and lumbered with a redundant stand.

Quote ="WormInHand"Who do the Council borrow the monies from in the first place? Is the debt unsecured, like if you get a personal loan to buy a car, pay an extortionate interest rate, but own the car....or: Is the debt secured, like a mortgage, where the lender can recall the debt on default and sell your house from under you? ie, if the council are the legal owners of the stand, can the mortgagor claim it if necessary?'" Sounds like the council own the legal title and bear the risk to me. They borrow from these chaps or someone like them I reckon: www.dmo.gov.uk/index.aspx?page=PWLB/About_PWLB Here's the sort of loans they make to local authorities: www.dmo.gov.uk/documentview.aspx ... ans_Report As Phil Webster alludes to, if Rovers were to go t1ts up, the council (ie the Hull taxpayer) bears the risk and is liable for £4m and lumbered with a redundant stand.

Quote ="Mrs Barista"Sounds like the council own the legal title and bear the risk to me. They borrow from these chaps or someone like them I reckon: www.dmo.gov.uk/index.aspx?page=PWLB/About_PWLB Here's the sort of loans they make to local authorities: www.dmo.gov.uk/documentview.aspx ... ans_Report As Phil Webster alludes to, if Rovers were to go t1ts up, the council (ie the Hull taxpayer) bears the risk and is liable for £4m and lumbered with a redundant stand.'" And not just Rovers - there are two other parties paying rent as well - presumably Rovers cannot support the full repayments on their own. 3 companies need to keep solvent here for the loan to be sustained.

Quote ="Mrs Barista"Sounds like the council own the legal title and bear the risk to me. They borrow from these chaps or someone like them I reckon: www.dmo.gov.uk/index.aspx?page=PWLB/About_PWLB Here's the sort of loans they make to local authorities: www.dmo.gov.uk/documentview.aspx ... ans_Report As Phil Webster alludes to, if Rovers were to go t1ts up, the council (ie the Hull taxpayer) bears the risk and is liable for £4m and lumbered with a redundant stand.'" And not just Rovers - there are two other parties paying rent as well - presumably Rovers cannot support the full repayments on their own. 3 companies need to keep solvent here for the loan to be sustained.

I have no objections to KR having help, we had it but the difference between then now is immense, I would worry as a supporter of FC if this club accepted a large cash injection on the back of massive council cuts and job losses. When libraries/ museums start to be be closed two three days a week, bins twice a month and then cuts to social services it will not sit well with voters of any persuation. I am sure many KR supporters can see the dilema the club and the city council face when this hits the national media ( and it will) there will be hell to pay.

People are being forced to live in sub standard housing in Hull as a result of cuts and then we get this, this has nothing to do with clubs loyalty. If FC where getting this now I would say the same its immoral, perhaps they could fund the East stand as well by cutting home helps.

There is no votes in a stand for KR and senior citizens clubs/meals on wheels closing down, the political damage to everyone involved and Middlesborough Minns & Co have the worry on big time.

It beggars belief that it's got this far. Other than Councillor Phil Webbo and Prat Prescott, (Labour not LibDem!) just how has Hudgell got Minns and co to commit suicide in this way?

Maybe they could put a dole office in one of the office space's then that way it would stop the dole bum benefit scroungers using the bus to town and making them smell of pot.

But seriously who cares the council and rovers will look silly when its empty every other week and there still failing to pull in a average crowd of 10k.

Not really - as long as all the offices get used regularly then it will be serving it's main purpose as a project for the local community, the stand is just a nice little bonus thrown in.



And as the stand will further strengthen our franchise we won't be looking silly even if it's hardly used (which it will be anyway).