Whilst I would with regret agree about Fash, I don’t go along with the Masi analogy, he was brought on late, and has all the attributes needed to blossom, he has size, power, and youth in this most testing of positions, he has bags of potential and will develop.

The second half was unreal, we never seemed to have the ball, Lomax showed us what a quality half back can do, Gaz and Ligi outstanding, I thought they were there for the taking, but they proved again what a smart organised team they are.

Having read a bit more and chatted to 2 mates in Hull I deduce the follwoing;

1. 6-2 up at half time and 7 interchanges available
2. half time talk and re focus
3. saints score 30 points in the 2nd half inc 4 tries in 10 mins
4. gallant loss

Now I’ve seen the tries
2 were dodgy
All tries we’re moving to their left to Mahe’s wing
They clearly wanted to target our right edge all the 2nd half for the points

Not sure who else could have played in the forwards without losing an interchange. Mind you that might have been the better option. Is it Bowden's knee again?

Turned on today expecting the usual Radford out , although one or two questioned his decisions there was a lot of good constructive thoughts.I don't usually knock players even more so youngsters but it has to be said Masi for the huge unit he is, simply does not run his weight.He came on when Saints forwards had put a huge shift in and made no impact at all. Yes it was his first run out but how many games in the past has he run any different.Ellis is a freak ,what a player and all those who said he was past it there are not many better than him .Sao our best forward by a mile played really well .Conner well cannot say anything what's already been said.At one point i thought we were looking at a 50 + drubbing but the lads did dig in,they need to forget this and march on to next week

Buchanan and Patterson-Lund were in the 21 and both could have played back row

Yesterday was definitely a game of two halves. Thought 1st half both sides were going ok but 2nd half St's were still ok but we were just awful, St's really didn't have to do anything special at all to score. The loss of Ratu certainly made a difference as they targeted the edge with Fonua who had a poor game and just does not look in shape.
Thought the use of the interchanges was poor and like the bad old days when Ellis went off we crumbled. The pleasing aspect was we stopped the rot but that is tainted with the fact that in the small patches we looked interested in the 2nd half we scored but just didnt do anywhere near enough in the 80mins.
Not many players come out of that game with credit with Sao, Ellis and Tuimavave the only standouts in an otherwise pretty abject performance. Connor has played Kelly straight in to 6 for Wigan even without the possible injury to Tuimavave and he needs to control his. frustration when its not going his way.
The 2nd half we made more yardage going backwards than forwards and Sneyd having to kick from behind our own line when we started that set on our 40 summed up the 2nd half and our discipline yet again was an issue.
Disappointing but not the end of the world though concerning the number of injuries picked up already and particularly with Bowden.

At least Radford doesn't appear to be blaming it all on injuries which is a step in the right direction imo.

If I were trying to put a positive spin on it I would say that the humbling defeat against Widnes in 2016 was a turning point in the season. Now, like then, we have maybe been believing our own hype and needed knocking down a peg or two. The fact that we rolled our sleeves up and at least did our best in the last 20 is positive.

On the other hand, it's yet another game where we have folded at the first sign of adversity. Good teams just don't go from leading to conceding 4 tries in 10 minutes. At this level it should all be about slowly turning the screw until the other side finally cracks. Saints didn't have to work hard at all, it was way too easy. You can point to injuries and the disruption caused by them, but none of that is an excuse for such a sudden dramatic collapse.

All we can do is hope for a good response at Wigan. Hopefully at least a couple of the doubtful players will be fit enough.

I still think last season we would have been 20-0 at halftime.

Maybe so. Unfortunately you don't get anything for leading at HT.

Look at the stats, our 3 sub forwards made 9 carries between them, that's not good enough, we have to share the workload better, too much work for the other forwards meaning they tire 2nd half. Radford got his bench and subs wrong yesterday, only one sub used first half.

I agree Dave, Radders could have spelled Ellis, but he was playing so well. And Tag went off after around 30min, and it seemed ages before he returned in the second half. Massi was sent on when the game was up, about fifteen minutes from the end. Who’d be a coach. Three kicks I think created havoc, Carlos and Mahe isolated, and very poor in defence, Lomax or Woolf realised this and our goose was cooked.

No one banned this week

I just came on to post that, good news as Ligi Sao has been great so far this year.

I was at the game, Fonua made a great pass to Carlos for one of his tries and won several penalties so it wasn't all bad.

While it was disappointing to lose we were not outclassed, a poor 20 minutes after the break did us in. With a better bench and the absence of a couple of brainfarts and it might have been a different outcome.

Kelly to start for me next week. Griff to stay second row, Connor and Carlos (if fit) in the centres, Fonua on the wing.

I am slightly concerned that we have not seen much evidence of the effectiveness of our attack coach yet but I suppose we are only 3 games in.

At the start of the 2nd half, we effectively had 9 (10 if you include Lane) players missing - it's no wonder the bench struggled.
It's a price you have to pay when you build a squad based on "quality" rather than "quantity".

To have two lightweight hookers in the team knowing that the pitch condition was going to be heavy was the wrong decision.
Radfords dilemma is with Johnstone who has played well since his arrival and doesnt deserve to be dropped but he cant leave Houghton out.
This option of moving Houghton to 13 as a ball player to include Johnstone is not the way forward.
At one point in the game against a big Saints pack we had Houghton,Johnstone and Lane on the pitch at the same time whilst Matongo was still waiting to be introduced.
To me thats a coach error.
Matongo has come in for criticism but he doesnt get enough game time to make any impact.He should have been the first interchange in the front row instead Radford chooses Fash.

…. so who would you have played instead of Fash, Lane and Johnstone (who, tbh, hasn't impressed me, but what would I know)?

Our attack coach is Andy Last.
Unless he has been in Australia pre season and picked up some new ideas nothing will change.

Quote ="bonaire"Our attack coach is Andy Last. Unless he has been in Australia pre season and picked up some new ideas nothing will change.'" And here's me thinking it's Kieron Purtill. Maybe I'm right.... Quote ="Hull FC Website"Hull FC’s new Attacking & Emerging Talent coach Kieron Purtill says he is hoping to use his almost two decades of coaching experience in his new role at the Black & Whites.'" Also (from a week ago) .... https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/r ... ct-3828217

Quote ="bonaire"Our attack coach is Andy Last. Unless he has been in Australia pre season and picked up some new ideas nothing will change.'" And here's me thinking it's Kieron Purtill. Maybe I'm right.... Quote ="Hull FC Website"Hull FC’s new Attacking & Emerging Talent coach Kieron Purtill says he is hoping to use his almost two decades of coaching experience in his new role at the Black & Whites.'" Also (from a week ago) .... https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/r ... ct-3828217

You must be the only one on here who hasnt been impressed with Johnstone.He didnt put a foot wrong at Leeds and our play the ball was much faster and his passing more accurate than Houghton.
I suppose you have answered your own question.

With regard to the team selection obviously with Bowden pulling out late then even though Johnstone has been playing well i would have left him out and drafted in Patterson-Lund.
We didnt have an option to leave out Fash or Lane and either of those could have been used at 9 to spell Houghton if necessary.

It's not the fact that any of them played, it's the fact that Radford inexplicably only made one change in the first half and then ended up with them all on the field at the same time.

I know you don't rate Houghton, you've been setting him up as the fall guy since before the end of last season, if not longer.
What would I know? Well compared to your record over the years, more than enough, thankyou.
I haven't seen enough of Johnstone, but I've not seen anything yet to suggest he's a long term replacement, but who knows?
I certainly don't get this Houghton bashing that some on here seem keen on.
I guess if you don't like a player, then he's an easy target.

… or maybe that's why we managed to stay in front until halftime?

What really screwed us up was losing Ratu at halftime.

Saints took full advantage of a weakened right edge.

… while I'm at it, Connor is not a halfback and was totally outplayed, Griffin is an out an out centre who can probably fill in as a forward for part of a game, but not for the full 80 minutes.