He says that there are lazy and stupid people on the dole, not that all people on the dole are lazy and stupid. Kinda hard to argue with that, and I speak from personal experience.

He also says that anyone with the drive to do well will [ieventually[/i get off the dole and find a job. I don't think that's too controversial a statement, although I can think of one or two special cases where it might not apply.

He's probably worded things badly, but he doesn't say what you seem to think he does.

Not sure it's just in Hull Ian!

I have a non rascist plan for the future of the uK which would solve the vast majority of our issues if anyone is interested, maybe a little long but will post it if anyones is interested?? based upon the feelings of a 60 year old Ex Infantryman who is proud to be British not BNP related .
Am I allowed I am not sure, as it does not attack anyone or slander any race colour or creed but looks at the UK as a whole ,
??

Go for it.

'In the UK I have heard a lot of people yelling for peace, racial harmony, respect etc etc but I have not heard of anyone doing anything about it with a plan ,So, here's my plan and I invite eveyone to find a flaw within it and add to it, its just an old mans thoughts.'

Day 1) 'The UK will apologize to the world for our 'interference' in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, Taliban and the rest of those 'good 'old' boys',
promising we will never 'interfere' again.

Day 2) We will withdraw our troops from all non UK territories all over the world instantly.
Starting with Germany , South Korea , the Middle East , Philippines, Iraq and Afghanistan They don't want us there so best we bring our boys back home.
Then we would station these troops in Garrisons all along our coast .
No more sneaking through holes in the fence or channel tunnel etc. also all of those caught trying to do so would be treated extremely harshly, harsh yes but what a deterrent to those who use these means to infiltrate our system and country, I promise you these issues would stop overnight.

Day 3) All illegal aliens have 7 days to get their affairs together and leave along with their family and friends and We'll give them a free trip home to where ever they choose, look at this as the British taxpayers last free meal to them.
After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up en masse by the troops and dealt with immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal , they had been warned and should not be here and were given due warning, also anyone found hiding them or knowing of them will be treated as an illegal also.
With this plan you watch the ferry ports fill up overnight!!! Like rats leaving a ship at port it will be!!!
Or better still we stop the trains through the Chunnel for one night and give them 12 hours to make their way through ….. France will welcome them im sure NOT!!!.

Day 4) All future visitors regardless of where they are from will be thoroughly checked and limited to a 30 day visa unless given a special permit for special reasons, IE sportsmen , specialists , medical folk etc etc!!!!
Allies of the UK would be governed under different rules specific to that country and their standing on the ladder of friendliness.
No one from a terrorist attached nation will be allowed in what so ever, not even their governments as diplomatic immunity will become a thing of the past.
If they don't like it there in their own countries then they should try to change it themselves from within as we had to do in our distant past and not come to hide here.
Asylum would never be available to anyone EVER. We don't need any more cab drivers, car wash attendants or corner shop cashiers.

Day 5) No foreign 'students' over age 21. If they don't attend classes and have not got a sick note, they get an instant fail and it's back home baby just as soon as you are caught.

Day 6) The UK will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient again energy wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will till that point require a lot more drilling of oil in the North sea and Scotland . The seals and rare butterflies will have to cope for a while!
All of our unemployed can be put to work by the government on local farms , rural businesses to help the struggling farmers feed the country and actually earn their money for once in many of their lives. Children leaving school will ALL be given an apprentice opportunity sponsored by the government so All of our children have the chance to be somebody and start a family, anyone on completion of these apprentice schemes will be given a goverment deposit to get on the property ladder repayable over lifetime terms , the children and youth of the uk is our future so lets start to recognise they have everything to offer.

Day 7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries £8 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it,then we go someplace else and They can also go somewhere else to sell their production.
(After About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough to make them start bleating and offering us a deal!! And if the USA followed suit we could get it down to £5 a barrel.) in the meantime we would buy the extra we cannot internally produce direct from the USA.

Day

If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not 'interfere and are not interested
' They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement, medicine or whatever they need.
Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the rich or thieved by some scrote in a mansion anyway.
The poor people who need it most get very little, if anything but that is not our concern any more.
Harsh but charity starts here in the UK with our own homeless souls, single mums, disabled , veterans etc etc

Day 9) Ship the UN office in London to someplace else
. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends who work in it or those whom use it for diplomatic immunity. Besides, the building in London would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

Day 10, All British children to once again be taught OUR history and the things that made Britain what it is in the Language we speak which is ENGLISH..learn it...or LEAVE... however all children would also be forced to learn at least two other languages so they better understand those whom live amongst us be it Erdu or Polish or what ever is deemed most spoken other than English , most German kids can speak three languages so why have we stopped learning??
And all taught by teachers that are in control of their classes again, not out of fear but out of respect..

Day 11, Step up work on the interior of the UK.
Hoodies are banned other than for sports.
Shell suits are banned other than for sports .
Children who do not go to school until they are 18 years old .
All children MUST wear a uniform to school be they from Bransholme or Beverley.
Any families / children considered anti social will have their parents continually fined until they deal with it, and they will.
All Police will be re trained to go Hands ON with scroats and trouble makers not shy away in fear of suspension.
Teachers will be re trained to be the boss not the patsy in class.
Capital punishment will be reinstated and we will live in a society where murderers will not have a playstation but the end of a rope in public even maybe pay to view on TV, and that includes anyone who makes or sells drugs as this is the single most devilish item available in the world today and the devil stalking our kids.

the odd mistake in executions over 50 years will not balance the evil gary glitters of this world and those who murder old folk & children so we will accept the odd mistake but get rid of hundreds of those that we have to look after day in day out in prison with our taxes here in the UK and would anyone of the normal folk really care
( I do not include the limp wrested do gooders and tree huggers) !!

We need to eradicate the current “ gotta blame someone attitude here in the UK and this is the beginning, we need to go back to what Churchill wanted, a country that is self sufficient , where old folk can walk the streets at night and not be frightened and where young boys can play in Liverpool without getting shot for the control of drug areas!!
Children will again be allowed to play sports in the streets and grow up as they should , those that complain obviously never had a childhood !!

Any anti British sentiment overseas will be ignored as it no longer matters to us!!


Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

Your choice is the following

You must work harder because millions of unemployed,illegal immigrants and murderers rely on you every week!!

I know there is much I have left out but I would need a forum all to myself to get it all in.. sorry if its boring but its not racist and not anti foreignerits simply a start to mend the UK , I dont have anything against anyone or any colour if they work hard and respect others around them .

I've not got time to read the full thread, so I apologise if this has already been covered. I am by no means a BNP sympathiser, AT ALL, but I feel the BBC couldn't have handled last night any worse than they did!! A fair "debate" (which everyone is entitled to in the UK) is NOT given when you have the following: 1) One guy on his own surrounded by 5 panellists that blatantly don't like Griffin (personal opinions should stay at the door), its Question Time we want someone to sort out the "sh*t state of affairs" the country is in, not to argue about the guy in a (borderline) personal manner! 2) The the audience had just one or two BNP sympathisers (I'm not saying they have loads), but they again weren't at the front, or dotted around everywhere in the audience, they were all at the back. He may not have allot of support, but it seemed strange that they all got put out of view? When you look at it, Griffin's only real election styled pledge to anyone in the UK is based on immigration, if he had more realistic views surely we'd have heard them by now and at the very least people would have discussed them in public arena and far more than they have currently? Last nights one sided debate basically made a martyr of Griffin to his current supporters and possibly strengthened the resolve of previous hanging voters to join the cause. I feel last night did more damage, in convincing [isome[/i people to join him and his obnoxious campaign. What should have happened is a fair debate with stringent "one at a time" questions for both arguments, who is right and who is wrong is no issue in this discussion as, as we live in a free speech society and debate is the life blood of a democracy FFS. If Abu Hamza gets free speech, then so does Griffin (unfortunately true, but he's allowed his say, even if it does make him look like a numpty). They should have avoided the obvious race argument or got it over and done with and then pushed him on real issues, such as the post office dispute, the NHS, schools, our armed forces being places they shouldn't be; not just something to get his usual reply of "my granddad was in WWII argument", to that statement someone should have said "Mr Griffin, if I remember correctly, it was called World War 2, not UK War 2, everyone was there and not just your flaming granddad or just the UK." He's already using last nights staged witch hunt as an "oh, woe is me" campaign!! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8322322.stm Well done BBC, you thought that through well didn't you?! (Just my opinion)

I've not got time to read the full thread, so I apologise if this has already been covered. I am by no means a BNP sympathiser, AT ALL, but I feel the BBC couldn't have handled last night any worse than they did!! A fair "debate" (which everyone is entitled to in the UK) is NOT given when you have the following: 1) One guy on his own surrounded by 5 panellists that blatantly don't like Griffin (personal opinions should stay at the door), its Question Time we want someone to sort out the "sh*t state of affairs" the country is in, not to argue about the guy in a (borderline) personal manner! 2) The the audience had just one or two BNP sympathisers (I'm not saying they have loads), but they again weren't at the front, or dotted around everywhere in the audience, they were all at the back. He may not have allot of support, but it seemed strange that they all got put out of view? When you look at it, Griffin's only real election styled pledge to anyone in the UK is based on immigration, if he had more realistic views surely we'd have heard them by now and at the very least people would have discussed them in public arena and far more than they have currently? Last nights one sided debate basically made a martyr of Griffin to his current supporters and possibly strengthened the resolve of previous hanging voters to join the cause. I feel last night did more damage, in convincing [isome[/i people to join him and his obnoxious campaign. What should have happened is a fair debate with stringent "one at a time" questions for both arguments, who is right and who is wrong is no issue in this discussion as, as we live in a free speech society and debate is the life blood of a democracy FFS. If Abu Hamza gets free speech, then so does Griffin (unfortunately true, but he's allowed his say, even if it does make him look like a numpty). They should have avoided the obvious race argument or got it over and done with and then pushed him on real issues, such as the post office dispute, the NHS, schools, our armed forces being places they shouldn't be; not just something to get his usual reply of "my granddad was in WWII argument", to that statement someone should have said "Mr Griffin, if I remember correctly, it was called World War 2, not UK War 2, everyone was there and not just your flaming granddad or just the UK." He's already using last nights staged witch hunt as an "oh, woe is me" campaign!! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8322322.stm Well done BBC, you thought that through well didn't you?! (Just my opinion)

Accurate reflection of the population then.

Gives credence to the saying "give them enough rope to hang themselves"

Griffin was shown for what he is, a pathetic racist bigot.

Absoutley, the guy is a tool a smug arogant to$$er

Hello Oracle. I thought it wouldn't take long for you to out yourself.

Well said.

He came across as a political lightweight and a grinning fool on top of his disgusting political views.

Quote ="SiBDJ"I've not got time to read the full thread, so I apologise if this has already been covered. I am by no means a BNP sympathiser, AT ALL, but I feel the BBC couldn't have handled last night any worse than they did!! A fair "debate" (which everyone is entitled to in the UK) is NOT given when you have the following: 1) One guy on his own surrounded by 5 panellists that blatantly don't like Griffin (personal opinions should stay at the door), its Question Time we want someone to sort out the "sh*t state of affairs" the country is in, not to argue about the guy in a (borderline) personal manner! 2) The the audience had just one or two BNP sympathisers (I'm not saying they have loads), but they again weren't at the front, or dotted around everywhere in the audience, they were all at the back. He may not have allot of support, but it seemed strange that they all got put out of view? When you look at it, Griffin's only real election styled pledge to anyone in the UK is based on immigration, if he had more realistic views surely we'd have heard them by now and at the very least people would have discussed them in public arena and far more than they have currently? Last nights one sided debate basically made a martyr of Griffin to his current supporters and possibly strengthened the resolve of previous hanging voters to join the cause. I feel last night did more damage, in convincing [isome[/i people to join him and his obnoxious campaign. What should have happened is a fair debate with stringent "one at a time" questions for both arguments, who is right and who is wrong is no issue in this discussion as, as we live in a free speech society and debate is the life blood of a democracy FFS. If Abu Hamza gets free speech, then so does Griffin (unfortunately true, but he's allowed his say, even if it does make him look like a numpty). They should have avoided the obvious race argument or got it over and done with and then pushed him on real issues, such as the post office dispute, the NHS, schools, our armed forces being places they shouldn't be; not just something to get his usual reply of "my granddad was in WWII argument", to that statement someone should have said "Mr Griffin, if I remember correctly, it was called World War 2, not UK War 2, everyone was there and not just your flaming granddad or just the UK." He's already using last nights staged witch hunt as an "oh, woe is me" campaign!! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8322322.stm Well done BBC, you thought that through well didn't you?! (Just my opinion)'" well said. I am glad I wasnt the only one who thought that, like them or loathe them the whole point of our society is to give an unbiased view from all sides of all parties which was certainly not the case last night , to be honest it made a mockery of the whole thing. but so does black policemans associations etc so i guess its simply the country we live in thats immoral not the BNP alone

Quote ="SiBDJ"I've not got time to read the full thread, so I apologise if this has already been covered. I am by no means a BNP sympathiser, AT ALL, but I feel the BBC couldn't have handled last night any worse than they did!! A fair "debate" (which everyone is entitled to in the UK) is NOT given when you have the following: 1) One guy on his own surrounded by 5 panellists that blatantly don't like Griffin (personal opinions should stay at the door), its Question Time we want someone to sort out the "sh*t state of affairs" the country is in, not to argue about the guy in a (borderline) personal manner! 2) The the audience had just one or two BNP sympathisers (I'm not saying they have loads), but they again weren't at the front, or dotted around everywhere in the audience, they were all at the back. He may not have allot of support, but it seemed strange that they all got put out of view? When you look at it, Griffin's only real election styled pledge to anyone in the UK is based on immigration, if he had more realistic views surely we'd have heard them by now and at the very least people would have discussed them in public arena and far more than they have currently? Last nights one sided debate basically made a martyr of Griffin to his current supporters and possibly strengthened the resolve of previous hanging voters to join the cause. I feel last night did more damage, in convincing [isome[/i people to join him and his obnoxious campaign. What should have happened is a fair debate with stringent "one at a time" questions for both arguments, who is right and who is wrong is no issue in this discussion as, as we live in a free speech society and debate is the life blood of a democracy FFS. If Abu Hamza gets free speech, then so does Griffin (unfortunately true, but he's allowed his say, even if it does make him look like a numpty). They should have avoided the obvious race argument or got it over and done with and then pushed him on real issues, such as the post office dispute, the NHS, schools, our armed forces being places they shouldn't be; not just something to get his usual reply of "my granddad was in WWII argument", to that statement someone should have said "Mr Griffin, if I remember correctly, it was called World War 2, not UK War 2, everyone was there and not just your flaming granddad or just the UK." He's already using last nights staged witch hunt as an "oh, woe is me" campaign!! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8322322.stm Well done BBC, you thought that through well didn't you?! (Just my opinion)'" well said. I am glad I wasnt the only one who thought that, like them or loathe them the whole point of our society is to give an unbiased view from all sides of all parties which was certainly not the case last night , to be honest it made a mockery of the whole thing. but so does black policemans associations etc so i guess its simply the country we live in thats immoral not the BNP alone

I don't deny he made himself look awful last night, but I think the "posse" wasn't needed, he could have hung himself on his own.

My point is they've taken the spotlight off the fact the guys a numpty and given him ammunition for the "oh woe is me" argument or the "well I tried to be professional and it was they who...." etc, etc.

Do you see where I'm coming from? I don't deny that the (allegedly) slimy, self obsessed, patronising, over hyped pratt is an apparent tool, but the BBC could have handled that soooo much better than they did.

There is no such thing as bad publicity and today the BNP's name is EVERYWHERE; which is not good, not good at all.

Exactly, when we stop free unedited speech (within reason), we then become something other than a democracy.

If you honestly think that the BBC would go to all the effort and grief of getting Griffin onto QT only to stitch him up like a kipper then you're way off track.

The biggest mistake they made was NOT directing proceedings. They left thing up to the panel as they usually do and it all went a bit Pete Tong. Nothing deliberate in it IMO.

What part of last night's programme was edited?

With all due respect, you missed my point and then at the same time got it in its entirety all in one reply matey, exactly, they...



With such an emotive issue, and such high feeling should that have even been allowed? Where are the producers and the directors, didn't Dimbleby have an ear piece?!

To make an apparent monster, into all but a martyr for his followers is not by any means clever.

He wasn't made into a martyr, although he would probably claim that.

He was given a rough ride because the vast majority of the country think his beliefs are abhorent.

It wasn't, but if Jeremy Kyle is likened to "Bear Baiting" by the UK LAW COURTS, then last night was not a millions miles from the same, it was "The Jeremy Kyle Show" with posh people and suits. The BBC knew what they were inviting to the show and did not prepare for it sufficiently.

A debate is listed in the dictionary as "a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers." whether anyone is wrong is the decision of we the public.

I just don't feel this was done last night.



Exactly, give the "alleged" scumbag an angle and he'll use it!!

Your posts implied that it was somehow deliberate, referring to a 'posse' and questioning why the BNP supporters were all sat at the back. If you didn't mean that then you might need to be a bit clearer and use less emotive language.

The BBC were, TBF, on a hiding to nothing. Having already been castigated by inviting him on they would have really got it in the neck had they been seen to interfere with proceedings in his favour. I think they quite deliberately chose to take a hands-off approach but unfortunately it didn't work as well as it might have.

The panelists and Dimbleby should have been more than capable of containing the situation. They chose not to, for whatever reasons. Although Dimbleby did get control of things towards the end. I wouldn't make too much of it though.

I'd have preferred a wider debate to further humiliate the lying fascist pig, but TBH I have no sympathy whatsoever with him over his treatment. I also don't believe that it will turn him into a martyr. If anything his snivelling protest today just makes him look weak and stupid.

This is the point. Those who say he was 'bullied' or 'lynched' are way, way off the mark. A man with abhorent views was taken to task by an audience and panel who think that such views have no place in our society.

Did anyone seriously expect the panel/audience to be saying,

"Well, that's an interesting point you make, Mr Griffin, although I can't say I agree with you. Have you perhaps considered the possibility that brown people are not the cause of all our woes? You haven't? Ok, then, fair enough. Your hair looks great, by the way."

He's a vile racist, and the reaction of the audience was the only correct one, IMO.

I think we're both "singing from the same hymn sheet" within reason, just have our own opinions on the debate.

I really do think that you're making way too much of this. It wasn't perfect, and was a bit cringeworthy in places, but it was hardly an infringement of the fascist pig's freedom of speech. If you're that interested in what he has to say there will be ample opportunity to sample his pearls of wisdom in the future.

Sorry if I've come across in an incorrect manner, I don't honestly care what he says, but if people treat him as they did last night, they give him rather emotive "Oh woe as me" ammunition.

That is my only point.

The sad fact though Kosh is that today the BNP are everywhere you look, the BBC and particularly QT have done nothing more than sensationalise them.
It will galvanise their party.
Why didn't anyone question him on other issues like education or the NHS or the mockery that is our postal service? we all know what he was going to say last night, so why not pull him apart politically and not morally?

That's fair enough, but I think you're overestimating that side of what happened last night. If you take a look at his attempt to do exactly that with his formal complaint to the BBC today, you'll see that he's just opened himself up to even more ridicule.

Alright, so you may get a handful of people who might use his 'mistreatment' as an excuse to say that they now support him (like that dim bint from Oldham on the news today). But TBH anyone that stupid was probably a lost cause anyway.