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| Quote ="His Bobness"Didn't see the game but listened on Radio Leeds.
They thought that the first half was more a case of Castleford being woeful rather than anything exceptional from Hull. Obviously they favour the West Yorkshire team so maybe that coloured their judgement.
But what a typical effort from a Tony Smith team. His teams love to play expansive rugby but are not nearly so keen on defending, He's been away from Australia for so long now I do believe he is out of touch with modern coaching methods.
Castleford couldn't quite pull off a remarkable recovery but Quote had the game gone on 5 or 10 minutes longer they surely would have.'" '"
If the first half had gone on 5 minutes longer the game would have been put to bed but it didn't. Neither did the second half.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"Tend to agree, thought we were very good early on, scored some lovely tries and definitely signs of more variation (e.g. short dropout to reclaim possession). But, and it's a big but, our pack is a concern. I just don't think our props as a group cut it unfortunately. We need Sao back sharpish and Taylor to show his pre season form.'"
Thought the first 40mins was so different to the dirge we've witnessed for the past few seasons and more as you rightly say the variation in play is refreshing and bodes well moving forward. Our line speed both in attack and defence was light years ahead of previous seasons, our intensity and tempo was also far better. However the 2nd half we reverted back to the old ways with little line speed at all and stood waiting in defence rather than closing Cas down as we had in the first 40. Cas were always going to come out strongly in the 2nd half and we allowed them back in to a game that we should have closed out easily.
Whilst I agree there are rightly questions with regards to our pack I'm not sure its a big but. Smith for some reason decided to have Fash & Cator as the two forwards and have all of Satae, Taylor & Evans sat on the sidelines for quite a period time which combined with over using Houghton for 60mins (why?) and the two un neccessary errors from McIntosh that Cas took full advantage just gave Cas the invitation to get on top of the 2nd half and get on a roll. All this on top of not having Sao, Savelio or Brown in the 17 against a big Cas 17. I can only assume that Smith with the score at 32-6 decided to try a few things out in a real game situation and test the players.
For me Brown offers more the either Taylor or Evans so mystified as to why he wouldn't have had him in the 17 and without Sao we go with Dwyer, Lovodua and Houghton.
Smith postgame seemed to acknowledge that he himself possibly didn't help and that he pulled the players up even at half time for some things he saw/thought were lazy.
Whilst the game was frustrating in the 2nd half it shows the team that even at 32-6 up they can't slack off. One other thing that was pleasing was our ability to pass and catch certainly seems improved from previous seasons too
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| Quote ="mwindass"Thought we looked really slick in attack. The passing was as crisp as I e ever seen us. We scored off two scrum plays, when was the last time that happened?!?. I've had my reservations about Dwyer and his distribution, but his running game caused Cas no end of problems.
Not to single out players but Mcintosh come up with two clangers. The pass to Hoy and a high tackle when we were under the pump. Think cas scored of the resulting sets. Thought Evans had a nervous start too.
Thought Smith got his interchanges a bit wrong today. Would've brought Dwyer, Taylor and Satae on a bit earlier to try and nullify them.
Glad we hung on but I'd make some changes for Leeds.
Not sure what Houghton brought. I'd take him, Scott and Cator out for Leeds and bring in Carlos,Andre and Ligi.'"
Houghton Brought the same as last few years .....nothing
Difference is people are now noticing how limited he is now we have a better hooker In dwyer
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| Not sure if this is the place to put it but I've started a Twitter account called @hullfc_stats which will have a bit of a breakdown of some of the big moments of games and stat analysis. Thanks to anyone that decides to give it a follow
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| Quote ="pmarrow"Smith On Humberside said pre game that he would accept the group competing as a successful season. He is either trying to nullify any preassure on the players from outrageous predictions or he has seen enough to know this squad isn't destined for great things. Unfortunately I think it is the latter and I guess us as supporters would accept the team just having a go and not getting hammered.
Post match he admitted he got a few things wrong but it is a concern we are hearing the word Lazy again and players crumbling under a bit of a rollocking. Be interesting to see who he keeps from the OOC list.'"
To be fair I think it will take a little bit of time to eradicate the old ways as it's been well engrained in the playing group over a number of seasons. Yes ordinarily it would be a concern but with Smith and his post game comments its something he won't tolerate and is not afraid to tell them even at halftime, again something they haven't been used to for some time.
Overall its still very early days and I thought there was plenty to be positive about for the future. Lets be honest after seeing the 17 for both teams before the game I'd have been happy with any 2pts. We saw some good stuff in the first half and not so good stuff in the 2nd half but do think as I said in previous post some of that wasn't helped by the likes of Satae.Taylor and Evans all being sat n sidelines at the same time inviting Cas back in to the game and enabling them to get on a roll.
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| Quote ="Chris71"We saw some good stuff in the first half and not so good stuff in the 2nd half but do think as I said in previous post some of that wasn't helped by the likes of Satae.Taylor and Evans all being sat n sidelines at the same time.'" Totallty agree, the small 'middle' enabled Cas to play Harlem Globetrotter stuff and offload at will and caused us to struggle to get a win in D.
Rovers suffered a similar problem last season when Litten and Parcell were on the pitch at the same time.
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| Looking forward to rewatching the game on Hull FC live.
You have to take into account that Cas where full strength and we where missing 4 of our stating 13.
If the kits were better Mcintosh would had scored and it would have been 42-6.
Smith got the bench and subs wrong, too lightweight and having all 3 props off at the same time and having Dwyer off for so long.
I'd bring Brown, Sao and Savelio for Evans, Cator and Houghton.
Need to get more from McNamara otherwise I'd play Lovodua there.
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| i still dont think we have a natural leader on the field to rally the troops when things arent going to well or when complacency sets in.even the players missing are not leader material.we played some great rugby in the first 50 mins,but when cas started scoring tries,the behind the sticks huddles was very reminiscent to last season.
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| Quote ="Dave K."Looking forward to rewatching the game on Hull FC live.
You have to take into account that Cas where full strength and we where missing 4 of our stating 13.
If the kits were better Mcintosh would had scored and it would have been 42-6.
Smith got the bench and subs wrong, too lightweight and having all 3 props off at the same time and having Dwyer off for so long.
I'd bring Brown, Sao and Savelio for Evans, Cator and Houghton.
Need to get more from McNamara otherwise I'd play Lovodua there.'"
I thought it was strange that Smith chose to start the 2nd half without Dwyer as it worked well in the first half and we seemed to lose our momentum and intensity without him and Satae, Taylor or Evans.
I agree that Brown has to come back in and hopefully Sao and Savelio are back for Leeds.
TBF to McNamara I thought he did well was directly involved is acouple of our tries and although he was targeted at times by Cas he stood up well defensively to it on the whole, apart from when he jumped out the line for their 2nd try. Think I'd rather leave McNamara there and spell Lovodua with Dwyer at 9 to keep the speed/tempo up, as felt that dropped off with the introduction of Houghton.
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| Well that was fun. We never make it easy. Overall pleased with the 2 points. I reckon the tackle bags will get used this week . Some really good signs and also some weaknesses but early days. Throw Savellio and Sao into the pack and we will do better. Great crowd to.
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| Quote ="fosdyke99"i still dont think we have a natural leader on the field to rally the troops when things arent going to well or when complacency sets in.even the players missing are not leader material.we played some great rugby in the first 50 mins,but when cas started scoring tries,the behind the sticks huddles was very reminiscent to last season.'"
Agree. Hadn't had one since Ellis.
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| Quote ="Chris71"I thought it was strange that Smith chose to start the 2nd half without Dwyer as it worked well in the first half and we seemed to lose our momentum and intensity without him and Satae, Taylor or Evans.
I agree that Brown has to come back in and hopefully Sao and Savelio are back for Leeds.
TBF to McNamara I thought he did well was directly involved is acouple of our tries and although he was targeted at times by Cas he stood up well defensively to it on the whole, apart from when he jumped out the line for their 2nd try. Think I'd rather leave McNamara there and spell Lovodua with Dwyer at 9 to keep the speed/tempo up, as felt that dropped off with the introduction of Houghton.'"
Was McNamara involved, he passed to Houghton and threw a awful pass to Mcintosh which he had to control with his foot?
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| I think people are being overly critical. Yes it was disappointing to drop off so dramatically at the end, but there are a lot more positives than negatives to take.
I think lack of match fitness probably played a part. Yes Cas aren't going to be 100% either but at this time of year in particular every team is at a slightly different level of fitness.
I think complacency played a part, both from the players and maybe a little bit from Smith himself with some of his substitutes. Perhaps thinking he was safe to rest some of his big guns knowing it's a short turnaround to Leeds.
I think there is also still a bit of metal fragility there that won't go away overnight. We did dig deep in the last 10 minutes though so it wasn't a disaster on that front. I think Hull teams of the past would have maybe lost that game at the death in that situation.
You've also just got to give some credit to Cas. When a team has nothing to lose and just throws caution to the wind it's hard to stop when everything they do sticks.
Learn from our mistakes, but we should also focus on the good things and go to Leeds with confidence. Especially with Savelio and Sao to bolster the pack. There's lots to be optimistic about.
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| Quote ="Dave K."Looking forward to rewatching the game on Hull FC live.
You have to take into account that Cas where full strength and we where missing 4 of our stating 13.
If the kits were better Mcintosh would had scored and it would have been 42-6.
Smith got the bench and subs wrong, too lightweight and having all 3 props off at the same time and having Dwyer off for so long.
I'd bring Brown, Sao and Savelio for Evans, Cator and Houghton.
Need to get more from McNamara otherwise I'd play Lovodua there.'"
Said that about Macintosh at the time and having seen the highlights even more convinced he would have scored had it not been for similar kits. I’m sure he thought the FC players on his left were Cas players and he even handed off Cator. Thought he was also unlucky with the penalty for a high tackle. Looked like a good solid hit for mine but would need to see it from the opposite side.
Disagree about McNamara. Didn’t he get a couple of assists? Thought he did okay and it was our defence that started to let us down. Personally think Jordan Lane needs to up his game otherwise he is the one I would be dropping. Griffin was way ahead of him in performance.
Still very encouraging start with some good rugby played and plenty to work on which Tony has already spoken about.
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| Quote ="Mr. Zucchini Head"I think people are being overly critical. Yes it was disappointing to drop off so dramatically at the end, but there are a lot more positives than negatives to take.
I think lack of match fitness probably played a part. Yes Cas aren't going to be 100% either but at this time of year in particular every team is at a slightly different level of fitness.
I think complacency played a part, both from the players and maybe a little bit from Smith himself with some of his substitutes. Perhaps thinking he was safe to rest some of his big guns knowing it's a short turnaround to Leeds.
I think there is also still a bit of metal fragility there that won't go away overnight. We did dig deep in the last 10 minutes though so it wasn't a disaster on that front. I think Hull teams of the past would have maybe lost that game at the death in that situation.
You've also just got to give some credit to Cas. When a team has nothing to lose and just throws caution to the wind it's hard to stop when everything they do sticks.
Learn from our mistakes, but we should also focus on the good things and go to Leeds with confidence. Especially with Savelio and Sao to bolster the pack. There's lots to be optimistic about.'"
You make a lot of good points which I totally agree with.
Think some fans expect too much too soon?
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| Yeah we tired missed Brown off the bench, nearly cost us but first 60 excellent, I'm going to be controversial but it's my opinion, I don't see what Lovudua brings to the side, he never really plays hooker and to have an overseas quota on a player without a set position is a waste, I know the Houghton haters won't like that but Lover should have been 18th man or Cator, Dwyer showed what we've been missing his pace out of dummy half was different class.
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| Quote ="davey41"You make a lot of good points which I totally agree with.
Think some fans expect too much too soon?'"
I've got reasonably high expectations myself, I think we will be playoffs and perhaps challenging a little higher than that, but you can't expect a complete performance in round one. You don't particularly want to see a complete performance in round one. It's a long season, if you are playing your best rugby in February then where do you go from there? I'm pretty content with what I'm seeing and hearing.
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| Quote ="Ellam"I don't see what Lovudua brings to the side, he never really plays hooker'"
I think most fans feel he should be playing hooker though, that's the point. We start with Dwyer with his speed and energy and when Houghton goes to hooker it almost feels like we are giving the opposition a rest. In Dwyer and Lovodua you've got two really energetic and explosive hookers. Their skill sets are a little different but the important thing is they can both bring a lot of intensity. Don't give the other team any respite.
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| Quote ="Ellam"Yeah we tired missed Brown off the bench, nearly cost us but first 60 excellent, I'm going to be controversial but it's my opinion, I don't see what Lovudua brings to the side, he never really plays hooker and to have an overseas quota on a player without a set position is a waste, I know the Houghton haters won't like that but Lover should have been 18th man or Cator, Dwyer showed what we've been missing his pace out of dummy half was different class.'"
Steve, Lovodua should be the bench hooker instead of Mint to be honest. You saw a very noticeable drop in speed and accuracy of pass when Danny came on. He loops the pass, and also when Dwyer was on, he has the forwards hitting the ball at the ruck rather than passing it backwards.
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| Quote ="Mr. Zucchini Head"Quote ="Ellam"I don't see what Lovudua brings to the side, he never really plays hooker'"
I think most fans feel he should be playing hooker though, that's the point. We start with Dwyer with his speed and energy and when Houghton goes to hooker it almost feels like we are giving the opposition a rest. In Dwyer and Lovodua you've got two really energetic and explosive hookers. Their skill sets are a little different but the important thing is they can both bring a lot of intensity. Don't give the other team any respite.'"
I myself have said it, that if we are not going to use/play Lovodua as an interchange 9 then I really don't see where else he fits in in all honesty. Out of Dwyer, Lovodua & Houghton then for me Houghton is behind both regardless of how good a servant as he has been.
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| Quote ="Ellam"Yeah we tired missed Brown off the bench, nearly cost us but first 60 excellent, I'm going to be controversial but it's my opinion, I don't see what Lovudua brings to the side, he never really plays hooker and to have an overseas quota on a player without a set position is a waste, I know the Houghton haters won't like that but Lover should have been 18th man or Cator, Dwyer showed what we've been missing his pace out of dummy half was different class.'"
Agree. If Lovodua doesn't play hooker it's wasting a valuable quota spot. To be fair to him he's never been given a fair run at his best position due to injuries.
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| Quote ="davey41"Said that about Macintosh at the time and having seen the highlights even more convinced he would have scored had it not been for similar kits. I’m sure he thought the FC players on his left were Cas players and he even handed off Cator. Thought he was also unlucky with the penalty for a high tackle. Looked like a good solid hit for mine but would need to see it from the opposite side.
Disagree about McNamara. Didn’t he get a couple of assists? Thought he did okay and it was our defence that started to let us down. Personally think Jordan Lane needs to up his game otherwise he is the one I would be dropping. Griffin was way ahead of him in performance.
Still very encouraging start with some good rugby played and plenty to work on which Tony has already spoken about.'"
Agree about Griffin imo was our best player apart from Clifford
Hopefully get back to his best and make 2nd row his own
And smith deffo needs to get his subs right leaving taylor dwyer and satae off most of 2nd half until last 10 minutes was just ridiculous and having both lovodua and Houghton on bench is pointless
Cas will definitely struggle hope we don't but I'm not sure if we're much better
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| Quote ="Marcus's Bicycle"If the first half had gone on 5 minutes longer the game would have been put to bed but it didn't. Neither did the second half.'"
If the second half had gone on 5 minutes longer we would have lost the match
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| Just had a look on the SL site and the stats from the game. Fonua made 17 metres off 4 carries, he's turned into a right pudding.
Looked like he was running in treacle when he was on
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| Quote ="Dave K."Was McNamara involved, he passed to Houghton and threw a awful pass to Mcintosh which he had to control with his foot?'"
Unfortuneatly McNamara is a real weak link but i dont think it helps having Lane,Scott and McIntosh on your outside.
Feel he will be more confident with Tuimavave on his edge so ill defer overall judgement on him until he has a couple of games with Carlos under his belt.
Certainly needs more confidence as evidenced when has passed to Houghton for his try as i felt he could have angled his run and scored himself.
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