www.code13rugbyleague.com/2011/0 ... explained/ Well finally thats cleared that all up "SIMPLES" REALLY WAS'NT IT ! CAN HEAR THE SUDDEN RUSH OF WATER NOW THAT THE FLOOD GATES HAVE OPENED ! RFL WILL BE BESIDE THEMSELVES THINKING OH S*IT WHAT HAVE WE STARTED? And thinking "bloody hkr what with the cooke registration to rovers now this how we gonna wriggle out of this"

www.code13rugbyleague.com/2011/0 ... explained/ Well finally thats cleared that all up "SIMPLES" REALLY WAS'NT IT ! CAN HEAR THE SUDDEN RUSH OF WATER NOW THAT THE FLOOD GATES HAVE OPENED ! RFL WILL BE BESIDE THEMSELVES THINKING OH S*IT WHAT HAVE WE STARTED? And thinking "bloody hkr what with the cooke registration to rovers now this how we gonna wriggle out of this"

no licensce for 2012-15

So it's clear then. You gave me a tenner...

Did everyone miss this bit?



This would fit in with the rules as already understood, but conflicts with the alleged quote by Wood in the HDM.

FFS.

They were never on quota. They are just non-fed. I've done the reckoning to the best of my ability on the thread on our board, for both KuH's clubs.

It isn't the floodgates opening, after all.

It seems that one of the 3 people who understood the rules was Neil Hudgell (I thought I was one but wasn't). I'll save my applause for our board.

The Mirror must have missed out a 'non-' (or possibly Wood misspoke slightly).

Haven't had to think this hard since trying to imagine a tesseract - proper mental gymnastics.

I did wonder if that was a possibility.

Having read through again, this is still a change to the rules as previously published where a quota player would have counted on both lists. The published scheme had the TOTAL number of non-English players allowed as 5 for 2011 onwards. Smells like fudge to me...

Going forward, a quota player is likely to count on both lists - unless a young Aussie comes across to join a SL academy, which you'd assume would be rare. There exist for now fed-trained quota players because of the 2008 fed-trained exemptions.

'Non-English' is a concept the rules had to deliberately avoid. My understanding was the same as yours - but do you have a link to it being explicitly stated?

So was all the flack given to rovers and the situation warranted, as in, have these FAQs cleared the situation up?

The rules for 2011 that were previously published stated that a club could have a maximum of 5 players who were not club trained or federation trained. This latest statement doubles that figure.

It's a change to the rules and the RFL are trying to conceal the fact and pretend that it was all just a misunderstanding.

Bunkum.

I'll go link hunting later, but it was on both the RFL and SLE websites at one time.

This is is how I have interpreted what they have said today, so does this mean you can have a maximum of five quota players and five non federation trained players now? With some quota players counting on both lists?

Exactly, they're taking us for complete mugs by pretending that these were the rules all along.

Strange, because [url=http://www.loverugbyleague.com/feature_1773-quota-rules-explained.htmlHERE[/url it seems to state that players can be on BOTH lists. So you would still have only 5 'Non-fed trained' players regardless!! Maybe Tongans aren't quota but they are non-fed as are quota players!!



Somethings going on!

TBH i'm finding this hard to get my head around.
So are we now saying that any club can go and sigh 5 Aussies and 5 EU/Kolpacks.
Or do the Aussies count on both lists?

That's how I understand what was said, you can have 5 quota players and 5 non fed players, but most aus/nz will count on both lists, but a kolpack will just count as a non fed player.


So in theory:

Quota:
Fitz
O'Meley

Non Fed:
Moa
Hame
Fitz
O'Meley

They're now saying that the lists are separate but players can count on both.

So there are now 10 places available for players who are not club trained or Federation trained instead of the 5 places previously published.

Players from countries outside the EU/Contonou agreement would count on both (overseas & non fed)

Players from EU/Contonou countries count only on the non fed list.

How ironic that the mail show a pic of Mason in his oz kit hmmm Tongan my back side, it's about time the international RL cracked down on players playing for two different nations once you choose to play for one nation that's it for the rest of your career.

That's what it says on my link!! So for instance, and i may be wrong, but the three combinations;

Lovegrove should then be quota but fed-trained
Mason non-quota but non-fed trained
Dobson quota fed-trained


I think

Does this technically mean then, hypothetically speaking that we could have 14 non english players in our squad?

Quota:
Green
Webster
Dobson
Clinton
Galea

Non-Fed:
Mason
A N Other
A N Other
A N Other
A N Other

Others:
Vella (Fed trained cos of date joined)
Fisher (Fed trained cos of date joined)
Lovegrove (Homegrown)
Newton (Fed trained cos of passport)

or, are vella/newton/fisher classed as Non-Fed trained? :S

Lovegrove counts as home grown mate, cos he was 19 when he joined us. This is one of those special dispensations, similar with Hansen at Wigan.

The SLE website states that clubs can only have 5 [ioverseas trained[/i (non fed) players in their 25 man squad.

[url=http://www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346Linky.[/url (bottom of page)

The new 'clarification' has effectively doubled that number.

That's what i mean tho, Homegrown as in fed-trained but quota as he is australian..

The RFL responded to my initial question posted on here earlier with a formulaic response including a series of FAQ's but still stating that nothing had changed. I followed it up with this:-

"Thanks for the reply.
So this does mean that any Cotonou country player with the appropriate passport currently playing for a Superleague team will with immediate effect no longer be deemed as a quota player. Indeed any such player will be able to play in the ESL as a non quota player. For example Sam Moa and Hame Lauacki for Hull FC , assuming they have Tongan passports , will now be non quota? This then will mean that Hull have 3 quota spots available now and yet only relatively recently they were trying to create more room on the Quota by Berrigan getting a German passport. Hull KR similarly were desperately trying to get Ben Galea off Quota by getting him a Maltese passport in order that they could create room on their Quota. In fact they could have at that time signed any Cotonou player. Why were/are all of the clubs so unaware of this rule and why when , as they must surely have been , when they were asking for exemptions and looking for ways around the rules didn't the RFL tell them that in fact they probably had some room on their quota anyway if they had any South Sea Islanders on their books? Coming back to my question, is this something that everyone was aware of and kept quiet about on the basis of some gentleman's agreement or in fact was it just the case that no one knew of the Cotonou ruling or understood it until HKR did some digging?"

And this is their very definitive , prompt and clear reply :-

If the players have been in the country since before 2008 then they are required to apply to the RFL for a special dispensation – extenuating circumstances basically as they came here to play before the Federation rules were put in place.
The Federation rule has been in effect since 2008 and any players hwo have come to teh league in that time have been subject to the rules and clubs have had to abide by them.
The clubs have all been aware of this rule since 2008 when the Federation trained rule came into force.
The Quota rule has been in place for 20 odd years.
[uIt appears to be a case that until Willie Mason’s arrival, clubs themselves were not fully aware of how the rulings operated.[/u
Regards

How do, don't know if already posted but had this forwarded to me this afternoon from a mate who'd emailed the RFL. Hope it makes some sense



Below are a series of FAQ’s designed to explain queries regarding the Quota and Federation rulings.

1 – What is the Quota rule?

- The overseas Quota is a limit on the number of players RFL member clubs can register who do not have a right to work in the UK (generally speaking on account of not holding a current European Union member country passport).

- Currently, Super League clubs are permitted five Quota players, one for Championship clubs and two for Championship One clubs.



2 – Is it only European Union passport holders who are ‘off-Quota’?

- No. The EU has signed various trade and association agreements promoting, amongst other things, free trade between the EU states and signatory nation(s)

- Of particular relevance to Rugby League is the ‘Cotonou Agreement’ signed with the ‘African, Caribbean and Pacific Group of States’ in June 2000.

- Signatories to the Cotonou agreement included various Pacific Island states such as Cook Islands, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, Samoa and Tonga.



3 – What does that mean?

- Cotonou country passport holders are, as a consequence of the European Court of Justice’s 2003 ‘Kolpak’ ruling, given free movement to work within the European Union (and therefore the UK).

- The Kolpak judgment declared that citizens of countries that have signed agreements with the European Union, have the same right to freedom of work and movement within the EU as EU citizens (subject to any visa restrictions)

- Thus any restrictions placed on their right to work (such as quotas setting maximum numbers of such foreign players in sports teams) are not compatible with EU law.



4 – How does that impact on Rugby League?

- In short, as a result of the Cotonou agreement and Kolpak judgment, players who hold a current passport for a country such as the Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga, etc (or an EU country such as France, Malta etc) cannot count as Quota players.



5 – What are the RFL’s ‘Club Trained’ rules

- The Club Trained rule only applies to Super League clubs and was first implemented for the 2008 season.

- Clubs are required to have a minimum number of such players (defined as those developed by the club at some point between ages 16-21) in their first team squad.

- The ‘Club Trained’ rules are separate to the Quota rules and were designed to encourage the development of ‘home grown’ (‘Club Trained’) players.

- In encouraging the development of ‘home grown’ players, the ‘Club Trained’ rules include a limit on the number of ‘Non Federation Trained’ players within a club’s first team squad.



6 – What is a ‘Non Federation Trained’ player?

- In simplified terms, a ‘Non Federation Trained’ player is one who was not playing for a club within the Rugby League European Federation between age 16-21.

- Clubs are limited to five ‘Non Federation Trained’ players only.



7 – Can there be ‘Non Federation Trained’ exemptions?

- There are a number of current Super League players who would otherwise count as ‘Non Federation Trained’ who have been given ‘Federation Trained’ player status by RFL dispensation.

- Such dispensations have largely been granted on account of the players in question having been playing for an RFL member club (whether in the UK or France) before the rules were introduced.



8 – Do players only count on one list?

- No. The Quota and Club Trained rule systems operate as separate squad requirements.

- Depending on his circumstances, a player might count as both a Quota player and as a ‘Non Federation Trained’ player.

- For example, a player holding a passport from, say, Australia or New Zealand only and whose player development was outside the European Federation (i.e. between ages 16-21) will count as both a Quota player and a ‘Non Federation Trained’ player.

- However, by contrast, if the same player holds a current, say, Samoan passport, he would be classified as ‘off Quota’ but would still count on the club’s ‘Non Federation Trained’ list.



Ultimately, in understanding the separate rules as to overseas players, it is perhaps important to understand that there are two separate lists and that players might count as both Quota and Non Federation Trained players – but some will count on one list but not the other depending on their passport and whether they have been granted Federation Trained status by RFL dispensation.

Just going to post the exact same thing what I got off the RFL this afternoon.