On paper they are all win-able. Depends which FC side turn up. (and on Saturday which Quins side turns up too)

Richard Agar will still be our coach in 2012, there is no doubt about that. If anyone has any doubts just ring James Rule and he will put your mind (in turmoil) at rest.

Thats 2 years worth of season passes i wont need to buy then.

Coaching aside, we don't have the 4th best squad in the competition. Why would we be in the top 4?

what do you reckon then? 5th? 6th?

agar's bullet proof. The last 2 years are the worst 2 years we've ever had in SL, we've lost this season already to the only 2 teams who finished below us last year and have copped 2 hammerings from leeds and 1 from wigan.

I honestly don't think the board care that much about results. They see commercial success as something apart from what is happening on the field and are focusing on that. It's obvious to me that the fans will only put up with rubbish for so long but the club owners obviously feel different.

It's the down side to scrapping P&R

I reckon 7th/8th myself, although I'm a confirmed pessimist. And that assumes that our current injury crisis doesn't drag on like the last couple of years. And TBH that wouldn't be that bad a result from 12th spot last year.

Is that pessimism or just realism? I reckon you're about right with 7th/8th. We aren't quite strong enough (but we're half decent) right across the park.

We have spent the max cap so we should be as strong as anyone and if McGuire had joined us then we would be top 3 NOW ! Agar is the weak link NOT the players. However if we win the next 3 then I will run with him as a fan.
IF we lose 2 of the next 3 then he has to go BUT he won't

Nonsense. We've had years of crap recruitment and retention which has led to us paying over the odds for average players. We went some way towards addressing it in the off season but still have work to do.

Agar is not the only problem.

We are miles away from being able to seriously challenge for silverware and not just because of the third rate coaching set-up currently in place.

Out of our current squad (and based chiefly on form this season), only three players would unquestionably be capable of holding down a place in a Grand Final winning team, those players being Fitzgibbon, O'Meley & Manu. I would think that every Coach and supporters of the other thirteen SL clubs would welcome any of those three as worthy additions to a side aiming to be the best.
I would also possibly add Whiting to that list as well, particularly if a coach was able to fully utilise his undoubted Rugby brain, although there is a question mark over whether he could claim a starting spot in a side sitting atop the table.

Added to that are three other players (Long, Berrigan, Horne) who obviously have played, successfully, at the very pinnacle of the game. However, all three have experienced major problems with fitness/injury in the last twelve months and there has to be a question mark against all three being able to consistently reach the heights previously graced. Fully fit and injury free, yes they can, but therein lies the crux of the problem with those three players.

We also have a batch of promising young players (Briscoe, Briscoe, Lynne, Houghton, Hall?) who with the correct coaching and development may reach the top of the game, but who at the moment are clearly still some way short of Grade A status.

That leaves us with the bulk of our first team squad, (Tansey, Calderwood, Yeaman, Dowes, Radford, Tickle, Washbrook, Cusack, Lauaki, Moa, etc, etc) and I'm afraid to say they are nothing more than mid-table trundlers. Not necessarily bad players, but not exactly outstanding either, and no team made up with the bulk of those players is ever going to be doing a lap of honour around Old Trafford in October (this year or any year).

If we were able to build a team from scratch (hypothetically speaking) to win a Grand Final then I reckon only those three players listed above (Fitzgibbon, O'Meley, Manu) would definately be assured of their place in that squad. For the rest, there has to be serious question marks against their continued presence (too old, too injury prone, unproven, or just simply not good enough) within a side challenging for honours.

And, of course, all of this is before we address the major problem of our coach, the single biggest handicap within the club. But win lose or draw in the next three games, we're stuck with him, at least until the end of next season at the very earliest in my opinion, so I think some of us are going to have to lower our sights a little, because I'm afraid under the current coaching & playing set-up, the only way any of us will be attending Wembley & Old Trafford is as neutrals.

Interesting post and I agree with a few points.

However I disagree with a couple of points I dont think we are miles off a top coach like Smith or Maguire and a 2 top players (Halfback and centre) would see us challenge for silverwear, look at Wigan they havent signed anyone and have gone up to the next level by just getting a top class coach.

I think you are being harsh on a couple of players also Moa, Yeaman, Caldewood, Tickle and Tansey are far better than plodders and good enough (if used right) to play for a top team challenging for silverwear.

Interesting post. hudds, wire, wigan, saints and to a lesser extent leeds, all have plenty of "average, middle of the road" players and seem to do much better than us.

I'd like to see you take one of those teams, and compare them player-for-player (with first choice 17s) and say you'd take more of our players than theirs!! There'd be a tenner in it for you if you can (and I'm a tight barsteward)

Jake has a fair point regards no team been stacked full of A grade stars, how can they be with the Salary Cap in place?

Look at the Hudds team and they have a number of players who could be classed as 'middle of the road' but as a team they are potential challengers.

Indeed he does have a point. Every team has to have the "solid" performers rather than 17 superstars, becuase of the cap.

But as BP1 says, we probably only have 3 players that would "walk" into any other side, and a few top youngsters who are more about potential than anything else at the moment. I would say that Wigan/Wire/Saints/Hudds have a lot more than 3 that would walk into our side, and I think their "middle of the road" players are better than our "middle of the road" too!

In summary, we have a decent side, but not top 4. I think people need to be realistic!

Nathan Brown.

Look at the different in Kevin Brown he has gone from average SL to one of the best halfbacks in SL since N Brown has been there, Agar hasnt improved any players at Hull that much, in fact some have gone backwards.

Same with Darrell Griffin IMO. Aspinwall and G Horne in the back row! Brown is certainly doing something right!

Will all change next season then, Nathan Brown is coaching Roosters from 2011.

Coaching the correct things, picking the right team and making the right interchanges perhaps?

Hudds have done well in picking up players who wee going nowhere in their careers such as Brown, Robinson and now Brough..and turning them into better players.

this was a policy used successfully by us when Mcrae was here. We signed players like Raynor, Dowes, Brough, Thackray etc from the lower end of the table or the reserve league and turned them in to better players.

Doubt it they have a good board of direcetors who have the ambition to sign another and money to get a top coach, you watch Kearney end up there.

Some fans, definitely. My worry is not enough. As you say, we've had our 2 worst SL seasons and season ticket sales have still gone up. When will enough be enough?

Lets be realistic here.

We are not going to win anything this season.

We are not going to finish in the top four.

Wigan, Warrington, Saints, Hudds and Leeds are all better than we are.

After the last two seasons we should all be satisfied with making the play-offs IMO. If we could make the top six it should be regarded as a good season and we should be satisfied with that.

Hull have a significant number of players not playing to their potential whilst those other teams have player who are performing at their peak.

For instance, a half back partnership of Sean Long and Richard Horne looks much better on paper than Danny Brough/Luke Robinson and Kevin Brown. It also should be no worse than Thomas Leuluai/Paul Deacon and Sam Tomkins

Likewise a Front Row of O'Meley, Berrigan, Dowes/Cusack/Moa/Radford looks good on paper compared to Crabtree, Lunt, Mason or Fielden, Riddell and Coley.

In fact if you look through our team we have:

O'meley
Berrigan
Fitzgibbon

Who are all multiple SOO and Australian capped players

Calderwood
Yeaman
Long
Briscoe

Who have all played for GB/England

Together with a number of other players hwo have played for minor countries

Is the fact that many of them are underperforming down to the individuals or is it a coach who isn't getting thebest out of them?